Transcript of Season 4, Episode 3 - Transcript

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the British English Podcast. Or should I say hallo und willkommen zur podcast-episode dieser woche.

Shana:
dieser woche

Charlie:
Something like that

Shana:
yeah, für schon

Charlie:
Yeah

Shana:
I'm excited. Hi, Charlie.

Charlie:
Hello, Shana. Yes. So I attempted a bit of German then or ein bischen Deutsche, because Shana and I are going to be speaking about our experiences living in Germany because yes, we spent a couple of years there once upon a time. And so I wanted to dig into any culture shock either of us experienced. The things we loved about the place and the people, and if there are any, the things we were perhaps happy to see the back of when we left. So yes, Willkommen, Shana. Wie gehts?

Shana:
ganz gut und dir?

Charlie:
Very good. Yeah. Are you doing well today?

Shana:
I am doing really well. I'm really excited. It's Halloween here in California. I guess where you're at right now, it's no longer Halloween, is it?

Charlie:
Yeah. We put down the, the costumes for another year. And the turnips, as you just reminded me about the tradition in England back in the day. Can you tell the listeners about that?

Shana:
Yeah. So I did a bit of research on the history of Halloween and it originated in the UK, but instead of carving pumpkins, they used to carve turnips. And so turn a turnip, I suppose, is a root vegetable. Would you say that?

Charlie:
I would say that, yes.

Shana:
Yeah. And so there are a little bit smaller. Little white, little purple. And we just looked at some images and it's definitely worth Googling if you guys are by a computer.

Charlie:
Definitely. Yeah. Google 'carve a turnip' and you will be shocked at the creativity that people put into turnips. Yeah, I didn't know about that. I didn't know about that. We carved pumpkins when I was a child. But yeah, Shana has children, so, yeah, you're going out trick or treating tonight? Yes?

Shana:
Oh, most definitely. Yeah. I'm really excited about it. It's fun having kids and reliving the sort of experiences that I had when I was a kid and looked forward to the whole year. So living it up. Yeah. Going to going to do this right after, right after the call.

Charlie:
Fantastic. Linking it to Germany. Now, I know that you didn't live in Germany with your children, but if you did, would you immediately think of any positives of living in Germany with children as opposed to living in where you live currently in California?

Shana:
Well, you know what? Speaking of children, my best friend is German. She is from Berlin. And yesterday she gave birth, [oh] so the 30th of October. And she is going to spend, I think, a full year on maternity leave for I think, yeah, a period of time split between her husband and her. But it's a very long period of time. And so I think that is one of the things I think of about having children in Germany. You have this sort of support from the government to take that time off of work and enjoy your child. And, you know, once they do end up going to school, they actually have that also supported most times. Actually, I shouldn't say that because I have another friend living in a different area of Germany outside of Berlin and it is paid for. But yeah, there's that that aspect that would be wonderful to have kids there.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So Stacey and I were thinking, what would be the best way to get the most out of maternity leave if you were to, like, go between countries? Because I feel like, well, Germany does have very good health care, but I feel like America has exceptional health care, but you don't want to pay for it. So maybe you could, like, somehow go through the UK NHS and then get the American doctors and then you can go to Germany and have 1 to 2 years maternity leave, which I think is one of the longest in the world.

Shana:
Yeah, I recently looked it up and there... I can't remember if it was Bulgaria or yeah, it was Bulgaria. 58.6 weeks of maternity leave, 49.5 of those are with full pay. So that's not too bad.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty insane. But I feel like Germany, you could have one year full pay or two years split with the full one year pay, if that makes sense.

Shana:
Yeah, I have no idea. It's not something that I've experienced before. All I know is that my friend has plenty of time to have conversations with me while she's on maternity leave, and I always feel a little bit jealous because in the United States, we have no maternity leave. So I mean, we have maternity leave, but no paid maternity leave. So...

Charlie:
Do you not... Do you not have two weeks?

Shana:
No. So, you know, we are actually one of only eight nations without paid parental leave in the world and the only industrialised nation without it. So...

Charlie:
Wow.

Shana:
Yeah. And it's just something that, you know, I, I didn't really even think of very much because I'm self employed. And so it's just like, okay, I'm going to be at home anyway. I work from home, but it's something that I hear very often in conversation, just women complaining about the fact that they have to take their time off work. And if they don't come back, if they if they want to stay and watch their child for a bit longer, a lot of times their bosses aren't understanding. It's a complicated situation here.

Charlie:
Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. And and also not just having a child, like literally taking holidays is a lot harder from what I remember. Again, going back to the days that we were there, Stacey would... I think she started there as a graduate and she was given, I want to say, ten days. Only ten days for the whole year. Yeah. Is that... Does that sound about right?

Shana:
Yeah. We [in America?] we normally have two weeks of paid vacation and then five sick days. So you get to add those five days to your to your paid vacation if you want to. But yeah, that's it's not very much. What is it like in in England?

Charlie:
I think it's it's just a little bit less generous than Germany or most European countries. I actually haven't been back for ten years working in the in the country. So I don't know, but I think it's about 18 to 22 days.

Shana:
That's great for planning vacations. I'm sure you guys have a lot of three week trips then to different fun beach spots in the in southern Spain, I think you mentioned before. Isn't that where your go-to is?

Charlie:
Is it is the go to place. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So taking holidays was quite a pleasure in Germany because of the amount of days that you would get. And I remember in May, I feel like it was May that they would have like four or five bank holidays. Did you did you remember this?

Shana:
No. You know what? For me, every day was pretty much a holiday there. Like I felt like, when I was in university, it's not like the United States where people are taking count of you being in the classroom and stuff. I felt like it was more relaxed, like people could come and go as they pleased. And so for me it was like, Do you want to go to class? Do you not want to go to class? At the end of the day, all you needed to know was the material you had to test out of the classes that you were taking. And and so essentially it felt maybe it's just because when you're spending a year abroad, everything just seems more exciting. I don't know, maybe I was just a bad student, Charlie. I don't know.

Charlie:
Do you remember the British word for not going to lessons?

Shana:
Bunk?

Charlie:
Yeah, very good.

Shana:
Was that it?

Charlie:
Yeah, that was it.

Shana:
Ditched or skip in American English. Yeah.

Charlie:
Exactly. Yeah. I'm testing Shana on that because we did an episode on Shana's podcast, the American English podcast. And the title will roughly be what?

Shana:
Mmmm... Maybe UK High School versus US high school experience, something like that.

Charlie:
And yeah, that, that word came up. So let's go back a little bit. So what years were you in Germany?

Shana:
Well, so if you don't mind, before we get into this, I've been going back and forth to Germany regularly since I was 16. I first went on a trip to Europe when I was 16. And it was sort of those very quick trips where you go spend three weeks and go to seven countries. But I went to Germany then and then went... The summer after I got back, we had an exchange student come stay with me and live with my family for yeah, pretty much the whole year. And she ended up becoming my best friend. And so that's the friend that gave birth yesterday. And so I've been going back since I was 16 every single summer. Or she comes over here, it's kind of like going back and forth, vice versa thing. So yeah, my study abroad experience though was in 2009. Yeah, 2009 to 2010. And then I did a masters in Potsdam right outside of Berlin in 2014 to 2015.

Charlie:
That's so sweet that you've got such a connection with somebody across the other side of the world.

Shana:
Yeah, it's special. I mean, I definitely would say she's my best friend. And then one of my other best friends is also German, so I feel very connected to the country and the culture there. And yeah, I would go back in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity. And what about you?

Charlie:
Made no friends there. None at all. No, no... I made a few friends. But actually, I mean, Stacey's work encouraged us to socialise with her colleagues and she worked for Puma or Puma, the clothing brand or probably footwear. Yeah, footwear. And they, they were quite a global community. So there were a sprinkle of Germans in there, but it was a real mixture of people. I want to go back to your your friendship. So do you still go over with your children? You go over every year to Germany?

Shana:
No, but they actually came and stayed at our house in LA for a month in June. So she was here, you know, living it up in LA. She had... She was pregnant, obviously. She just gave birth yesterday. And then she brought her young daughter, Fritzi, to come and stay with my family. And our daughters are the same age. And so that was really interesting to see, you know, the dynamic of a German speaking child with my child. My, my, my children speak Portuguese and English. And so I was in this awkward situation of deciding, do I speak in German with like this group, or do we change to English or what's the language here? It was just a big mess of languages, but very exciting, I have to say, to still maintain the contact with I mean, such a such a wonderful, wonderful person in her family.

Charlie:
Yeah. Oh, beautiful. Did you notice... It's probably a bit of a stretch, but did you notice any difference in the fact that they were German and your kids are based in America? Any cultural difference at that age?

Shana:
That's something I... I really hadn't thought of before. No. I mean, maybe her child dresses more in a more sporty fashion, but I just I just kind of think of a lot of my German friends tend to wear really cute athletic clothing. But, I mean, I don't know if that's just my friends and their kids.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah.

Shana:
Yeah.

Charlie:
I suppose they haven't had as long as an adult to be sort of nurtured into their culture, so there's not too much of a footprint of their culture in their on their personality.

Shana:
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Interesting, though.

Charlie:
And when your friend came to stay with you for a whole year, did you notice anything there?

Shana:
You know what? She always pointed out certain things, like her comments on American culture versus German culture and things that Americans would say to her, which she thought was horrifying about, for example, Hitler still being alive. And you'd just be like, Oh, God, like, did you not have any history classes before? Or someone would say, Oh, I have family in Austria. And she'd be like, Okay, cool. And and she's like, Oh yeah, what part? There'd be like, Oh, well, what part of Germany is that in? And you go, Oh, jeez, you did really not say that right now. So certain things like that that really stood out to her as being ignorant and or not having knowledge about Germany and where it's located in the history and things like that. But culturally speaking, I mean, I would have to say we're very, very similar. And I'm sorry, it's probably not an an interesting, interesting relationship to talk about just because we are really similar And maybe it's just Americans in general tend to have a lot of similarities with how Germans are as a people. [Oh] for example...

Charlie:
Let's, yeah, dig into that.

Shana:
Like organisation. She's very organised. I'm a very organised, she's very punctual, I'm punctual. We have a similar work ethic. I mean, we care about things like we like rules. I mean, I know that's a stereotype too. And so yeah, we like things a certain way and I, I don't know. What about you? Do you, do you feel like there were any things that stood out when you met the Germans that you met?

Charlie:
I can't think of an individual that was necessarily very, very different. But on the whole, well, because we had just come from Ohio. So the difference there was, was quite obvious in the way that people would meet you for the first time. And Stacey's aunty made a comparison of a couple of pieces of fruit. What was it? I think she said Americans are like peaches and Germans are like coconuts.

Shana:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Do you see what...? Do you see what I'm getting at there?

Shana:
Yeah. The hardness on the outside and the softness in the centre versus the softness on the outside, and the hardness in the centre. Like getting to know someone sort of the first time, which I definitely... Yes, I get where you're going with that and I already agree with that a bit. So continue. Sorry, continue your thought process.

Charlie:
No. Yeah. I wanted to leave it to you to interpret, but yeah, that was essentially how we felt on the surface. I think as as you get to know an individual on a deeper level, the cultural references kind of disappear a little bit and it's the individual that you get to know. But yeah, I felt like that at the beginning. And also being British in America or in Ohio particularly, everyone was just like, Oh my God, your accent. Wow. And then in Germany, they're like, go away and learn some bloody German. Like, what? What are you doing wasting our time trying to get a train ticket and you don't know perfect German? But on the, on the flip side of that, I should say that they were very happy to practice English at the same time. So it was a bit of a coin toss as to who you would get, I think. And bear in mind listeners, I was in Bavaria, I was in Nuremberg or Nuremberg, so that wasn't probably as international as, for example, Berlin. Were you were you in Berlin for your period of university?

Shana:
Yeah. So I probably lived in Berlin for three, three years total, I believe. At one point in, if Germans are listening in Prenzlauer Berg and then in Potsdam, outside of Berlin, and then also in the south of Berlin, near Tempelhofer Feld, which is their big airport that is now open to the public. So you can ride your bicycle around on the former like landing pads and like take off zones and sort of hang out there. So those were my my areas of Berlin.

Charlie:
That's cool. You could do a little E.T. moment and try and fly with your alien on the back.

Shana:
Oh, I would. I mean, man, I was out on my bicycle. I would go on those landing strips so fast that I felt like at one point I'd take off.

Charlie:
But at the same time, because the landing strip is so big and goes on for quite a while, I imagine you don't feel like you're going that fast.

Shana:
Yeah,

Charlie:
Dunno.

Shana:
I don't know. You see the people because there are so many people having picnics and I mean, that's something that I think of a lot when I think about Germany is just spending time outside in parks. And specifically there there were a lot of people with picnic blankets and hanging out. And so when you were on your bicycle, you were kind of flying by the people. So you did feel like you had some sort of momentum, I would say.

Charlie:
Yeah. Well, that that points out another one, the public spaces to relax in. Do you feel like that is a significant difference in comparison to America?

Shana:
Yes. Well, I think this also depends a lot on the city. There are a lot of American cities that were not planned. And I got to give a lot of respect to city planners of the world because you guys are doing wonderful things just for the aesthetic. Walking outside of my house, I don't feel in LA that I am being pleased by what I see around me. There's not a park on every block. There's like a significant amount of space between where you are in the next park or the next public square where you can sit and have an ice cream. And I do say that in Berlin it becomes part of your lifestyle. I mean, if there are parks on every other corner, then you sit down, you relax more, you take in your environment, enjoy more picnic-like food, which I think Germany just like has mastered the little breads, the Brötchen and the ice creams and, you know, everything that they have is somehow able to be transported to a public space. Do you agree with that?

Charlie:
I do agree wholeheartedly, yes. The the ice cream. I just realised how often we would do that in comparison to even here in Australia. So, yeah, most weekends we would grab... We bought this picnic bag that had a picnic blanket under it, a couple of champagne flutes because we try to be classy and then like some cutlery and plates, we'd take it on our bikes because, you know, very good flat bike lanes all over the city and felt very safe. Normally I felt quite on edge when I'm on a bike, but in Germany I felt very secure that we were in a in a safe space when we were on there and I didn't have to worry about my partner hitting a pothole or being hit over by a bus.

Shana:
Were you drinking and biking?

Charlie:
I'm not going to declare that. No. Yeah. Yeah, I think. Yes, yes, yes. That was actually a very common thing. Yeah. You'd take your bike to the town hall kind of area and then sit on the pebbled streets. Again, that was a really weird thing for our American friend to come and see. So we would... We would not use any furniture. Everyone would just choose a place on the ground and just sit on the pebbled road and have their beer.

Shana:
Yeah.

Charlie:
And it was such a nice feeling, such a community. Oh, it was great. And our British friend actually pointed out that this wouldn't happen in England either, because we'd just get too excited with the alcohol and we'd start throwing the glasses at each other.

Shana:
Oh, my gosh, that's funny. So where was this when you guys were sitting on the on the cobblestones, did you say?

Charlie:
Yeah. So in Nuremberg it's got like a two by two kilometre wall around the, you know, the old grounds of the castle. And then at the top of the hill you'd go through the castle wall. So it almost feels like you're entering, you know, over the moat and through the stone wall. And then you'd enter into a really cute little cafe, pub or tavern maybe, and then it's got those pebbled stones overlooking another very open cafe that everyone'd just huddle around and sit down. And it would it would be about 300 people by the end of the night, just sat in this corner just drinking Weizen, I think. Wheat beer.

Shana:
That's lovely. Yeah. You're evoking a lot of memories here of just, you know, the random spots you find to sit. Because, I mean, in Berlin it was next to the river or, you know, there was the flea market and you just sit in the middle of nowhere, like just on a grassy patch and go maybe even stop at one of they call it a Spätkauf. Did you remember Spätkauf? Spätis? It's like a little convenience store on a corner and you can buy like very cheap beer. Would you do that nowadays? Can you even do that in Australia? Spend time outside with alcohol or are there laws against it?

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually a good question because coming from Ohio, I think it was illegal. Like I walked around a public park with a beer and then my friend said you could get arrested for that. [Yes]. Yeah, yeah. Crazy. So I think in Australia some areas you're not allowed to bring alcohol, but not as extreme I don't think as America. But yeah we would go to the beach. That's, that's the main thing, I think, the difference. There are a lot of beaches around here so everyone gravitates towards going to the beach in the day and then maybe a meal in the evening. But it's it's so much more of a morning and day culture here that the evening everyone's in bed by 9:00, pretty much unless you're out at the bars and clubbing it's, yeah, it doesn't feel as social in the evening in comparison to what it felt like in Germany where everyone would come almost start the evening at bedtime here.

Shana:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean yeah. Party gets started at nine. Goes til like five in the morning. Six in the morning. I mean the sun used to come up when we would be out and then you'd go by to the bakeries, the best bread ever, and get like fresh, fresh bread in the morning. That's another, another very positive thing about being, being in Germany for sure. [Absolutely]. Bakeries, we don't have that many bakeries in the United States that are, you know, I would say small towns might have a bakery, maybe big towns, yet there will be bakeries, but normally they're inside of supermarkets, like part of the supermarket and not necessarily something that's I mean, it's not as, maybe I'm just being snobby here. It's not as special here because I just don't feel like our bread is as good, not to criticise my whole country's bread, but.

Charlie:
It's definitely not as natural, I don't think, is it? Germany has very natural ingredients and doesn't put too many preservatives in their bread, do they?

Shana:
Actually, it's my roommate, one of them. When I was doing my master's program, I had two German roommates and one Danish roommate, and she was teaching me the differences between European style flour and American flour. And it's actually true. There's way more protein in European flours. And she said that's what helps make good bread. And so I've tried to recreate some of the bread I made while I was living in Germany. And it's just not... It's just not as good here or it's flat. And I'm like, why? Is your yeast just better? I think the quality of the ingredients are just better that you have access to.

Charlie:
Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So considering the fact that you would go to and from Germany quite a lot, when you would go back, was there a go-to thing that you were looking forward to getting? Was it like a pretzel or anything? Like when you land?

Shana:
I always had my Belegtes Brot with salami and then it's just like really good seeded bread like a Mehrkornbrot. And excuse my pronunciation, but yeah, it's just a good little sandwich. I can't think of anything else. And then just the little coffee hour in the afternoon. I think it was also something very special. Having a piece of cake, Kaffee Kuchen, around like 3:00. And with a nice, nice cappuccino or a nice latte or something. It's something special that we don't necessarily do here. Do you guys have that aspect of culture in England? You guys have some sort of sweet treat in the afternoon around three, don't you, like with tea?

Charlie:
Yeah. Yeah. We would often have something with tea. A cup of tea around then. I do know what you mean though. I think the the cafe culture is really nice how people would go to it at that time in Germany and have a really nice calorific slice of cake. Yeah. It's not quite the same in England. Maybe stereotypically you could have a scone with your afternoon tea or a crumpet.

Shana:
A crumpet.

Charlie:
But we wouldn't really go out to a cafe necessarily at the same time. Like, Yeah, as you were saying, I felt like a lot of older people would go and do that as an activity in Germany.

Shana:
No, I always did it. I was I was like, okay, I'm going to take advantage of this while I'm here. I will be, you know, every time I saved up a bit of money, I would always be going to those afternoon coffee shops and I would be that annoying person sitting there with my language books and, you know, opening all my pages and get... Pulling everything out and not leaving for a very long period of time. I mean, I think pretty much they'd have to kick me out, although people really wouldn't kick people out like they do in the United States. Here they have a tendency to sort of put your bill on the table like very shortly after you eat. And there it's kind of like you can kind of take advantage of places and sit down for a long period of time because people are nicer and don't kick you out.

Charlie:
Yeah. Right, right, right.

Shana:
At least that was my experience.

Charlie:
So everything feels like a business exchange, are you meaning, in a in a restaurant or a cafe in America? You know, stereotyping, of course. But in comparison, are you saying that they feel like that you can be here as long as you like? Like in a library almost?

Shana:
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think back to tipping and I'm like, okay, you know, American servers are like, ah, you know, I have to get as many tips in as possible. The quicker I get new clients in, the quicker I'll get my next tip. Whereas in Germany, I don't think they're like, Oh, I'm going to get my big tip. And maybe that's part of it. Playing into the letting us stay longer. Or maybe it's just they just value conversations and it's just, Yeah, and I find it funny that people always say we have good service, whereas I actually would prefer having someone take longer to giving me the bill because I think that's respectful. Like, you know, I want to be the person raising my hand saying, 'Hey, come to my table,' instead of the other way around. So I think it's a matter of perspective.

Charlie:
Yeah. We have come to the end of part one. So feel free to take a break from your listening practice, but if you're happy to keep going, then we're now moving on to part two of this episode. Thanks so much for being a premium or Academy member and enjoy the rest of the show.

Charlie:
I think it's the grass is always greener as well. But no, I do totally see where you're coming from. In England, I think the rule for waiters is that you shouldn't take the plate away until everyone is finished. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in America they take your plate away as soon as you as an individual have finished, right?

Shana:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing on the plate, goes away. Yeah, yeah.

Charlie:
Which makes, I think, which makes the person or the people that are eating a bit slower feel a bit more tense and feel like, oh, the meal's coming to an end, I need to hurry my eating up. Which goes into what you were talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah I see that. Yeah, that is interesting. But on the flip side, I would be in Germany a lot of the time and I would feel like I can't get any good service or like they're literally not paying attention to me. So when I did go to America, when I went back for a holiday, I was... I felt refreshed with the fact that they would be very, very aware of my needs. So it really is like what you're... What you're looking for is what what you'll get kind of thing.

Shana:
So do you feel that American servers were fake in their interaction with you?

Charlie:
Yeah, I felt like they were. But you guys are so good at acting that I almost believed it.

Shana:
Oh, that's hilarious. You know, that was one of the criticisms that my friend Nina has about the United States. Like, oh, you know, it's just kind of fake, you know, this sort of interaction that you guys have. I mean, I don't really care because there's something... I keep thinking, fake it till you make it, but when you smile a lot, it makes you happier. So I think a lot of it is... Like, so say, for example, we have this grocery store that I go to. It's called Trader Joe's. [Yeah]. And one of their requirements for working there is you have to ask one question to every single customer coming through your line. So the cashiers are very friendly. They'll always ask you questions about what you're doing on the weekend. They'll start talking about like, who knows what. Last time I was in there, they criticised me for my hat because I was wearing a San Francisco hat and we're in LA. But you know, they always say something and for me, I don't care. Like, I think that's great. Like start conversation. I'm happy to talk to you. It's it's fine. Even if it is somewhat fake in the beginning, it leads to natural conversation. Whereas she was like, you know, it's just forced, whereas in Germany it's- you will pretty much never see a cashier say, 'Hey, you know, what are you doing this weekend?' That would be very odd for them, I think.

Charlie:
Yeah, I'm laughing so much because that is such a brilliant difference. Yeah. Imagine a German supermarket chain demanding that of their staff. You've got to ask a small talk question to every single customer. That's brilliant. I love that. Yeah, I remember Trader Joe's. That was a very not posh, but very a very nice experience when you go to the supermarket. We went from Trader Joe's to Aldi or Lidl. And so the difference was pretty extreme for us because I don't know if you remember, but it's almost like there's a sprint at the end with the conveyor belt when you put your food on. [Oh my God] It's like you're in an industrial factory and you've got to perform at your best, otherwise you will be tutted at by everyone.

Shana:
Yes, absolutely. The the area after the cashier is not big enough.

Charlie:
No, it's not, is it?

Shana:
You know what I mean? Like there's not enough room for the amount of food I'm going to be eating this week. So that's just not okay. And like, you have to bring you bring your own bags like you're a really crappy person if you don't bring your own bags. So like, I'd be sitting there, like fuddling with all my bags, things falling all over the floor and then, you know, trying to shove things in as quickly as possible. And, you know, you get home and your bread's squashed, your bananas are squashed like everything's a huge mess. But yeah, I remember that experience. Not having a bagger at the grocery store.

Charlie:
Yes. Not having a bagger. Yeah, that's a big thing. In in England, that's a privilege. We don't get that. And then I got used to that in Ohio. We were like, Wow, there's actually an individual who is, like their job title is is to bag your your shopping. That was unbelievable for us. And then like coming to Aldi, I noticed that you would be pushed up by the next person behind you. They would like almost, in my opinion, invade your space and they would push your food up and then they would start putting their food on the conveyor belt next to you. And I'm like, What are you doing? Why are you not respecting that I'm here? And I'd be very upset by it all. And then a German person told me, No, we're being efficient. We think it's rude to take up space like we're doing it for the next person. So we're we're thinking of others. And it was the biggest like twist on, like, what I think of as a negative. But it's really just perspective, isn't it?

Shana:
So that is really interesting to me. Like, so in England, you're not allowed to share the same conveyor belt as someone else at the supermarket.

Charlie:
No, you are, but it just feels a lot bigger and people would give you like a foot between your your food and they wouldn't rush you and you just would feel like you've got a little personal bubble.

Shana:
Got you. No, but I love how that happens sometimes with a twist of culture, you know, when you think you of something as negative and then it actually comes out positive. Like I remember Lucas's friends, you know, they were very critical. Then, Lucas is Brazilian. They are very critical towards other people's smells because in Brazil, everybody tends to pay attention to their showers and they their scents and everyone seems to be wearing nice colognes and things. And, you know, so I heard some criticisms about other countries and I thought, you know what, like think of this as a positive thing for yourself, like you guys smell better and then a lot of these other places. Also with the happiness thing, I think they're, say, they say a lot, OK these people are cold from this country. And I'm like, you guys are the nicest, most open people in the whole entire world. So like and then they always kind of like calm down, like, oh, you know, that's true. I'm nice. I smell good. Like, maybe I shouldn't, you know, be critical of other people. Like, I'm okay the way I am, you know. I'm not sure if I explained that well, but it's interesting thinking about the flip side of culture is what I'm getting at. Yes. Yeah.

Charlie:
Yes, I see what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. The positive to noticing a negative. Yeah. That's pretty good to be told that you're - you smell nice and you're very friendly.

Shana:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's true. Yeah. Brazilians are great.

Charlie:
I stereotype Brazilians with taking care of, like, putting aftershave on. Is that a thing?

Shana:
Yes. No. Well, they always have a a certain scent. They I mean the showering thing two times a day is normal. And yeah, I mean, but you got to also think it's humid in a lot of places. So that's you don't want to go to bed all sweaty and stuff. Whereas in California, you know, we have droughts. And so if you're taking a shower twice a day, you're not being respectful because there's not that much water. And so it's sort of like the same sort of thing, like, you know, talking about culture and you realise, okay, this is what you do there. But yeah, it's not okay here or, but yeah, they definitely smell great. Aftershave, cologne, perfume. Yeah, all of the above.

Charlie:
Yeah. I've got the, the point of recycling in front of me that I wanted to get to as well because I feel like it would be rude to end a conversation about Germany without giving them credit where credit is due. And you said that you've got a recycling story. I want to hear about this.

Shana:
So when I lived in Germany, back at that stage of my life, I was really into planning events and I decided to plan a beer tasting event at my apartment. And I invited probably about 15 people and I bought every German beer at the supermarket. And the night was really fun. Obviously the circumstances were were great, and at the end of it I was left with a massive like amount of bottles. The whole our whole balcony that we had was covered in bottles. And as you know, at a German supermarket, you usually have a spot where you can return the bottles and get your fund- like their deposit back and which I think is amazing. I think every supermarket in the world needs to have that recycling system.

Charlie:
Yes, I agree.

Shana:
So easy, get your deposit back and then put it towards the food that you're going to buy. Like, how lovely is that?

Charlie:
Also, it's a wonderful thing because I found like it was a way for homeless people to get money because they would go around picking up the spare bottles on the street and then they would hand it in and they'd get a bit of money.

Shana:
Yes, yes. Yeah, we call them... Well, here we call them the can fairies. But there's a separate place you have to go and it's a little bit inconvenient to return your your cans and your bottles here. So [Right] Not as easy. I mean, I think more people do it if it's easy, like at the supermarket, you know, it seems part of your routine. So I decided to get all of the bottles from this giant beer tasting fest and put them in my backpack and in other bags and walk to the supermarket to return them all. And I thought, okay, my whole week's groceries is going to be paid for. But what I got there, actually partway through my walk to the supermarket, I, I felt something running down my back and the bottles had a little bit of backwash in them.

Charlie:
Oh, nice.

Shana:
Just a little bit of liquid in each bottle. And somehow they all sort of started tipping and falling down my back. There was like leaking leakage, major leakage on my pants. And then I went into the supermarket. I'm like, What am I? I'm not going to go back home. So I went in the supermarket and I made a trail along the supermarket with beer, and the person that worked there brought me a mop to mop the floor, which to me was like the most hilarious thing, like because I would I could never imagine this happening in the United States where I think respect like it's your supermarket. I shouldn't be making a mess in here. Like, Yeah, give me a mop, I'll clean it up. But it just wouldn't happen in the US. So I thought I thought it was hilarious. And there I was with all my bottles. I did get my money back. They did not take that right away from me. But yeah, it was a funny experience.

Charlie:
I like that. I like that a lot. So. To confirm my suspicions. Do you feel like a member of staff would go and sweep it up and say, 'No problem'?

Shana:
Exactly. Even [in America], you know, we have this thing, you break it, you buy it here. Even if you break something here, most likely you're not going to have to buy it. You know, they will clean it up for you, no problem. Like they, I think, you know, people here are all concerned about good reviews and bad reviews, so they always want to leave the customer happy. [Yeah] You know, leave the customer happy. And that's that's that's how we work.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Shana:
So, yeah.

Charlie:
The customer is always right [Yes] kind of mentality.

Shana:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Charlie:
Mhm. We have come to the end of part two now. So again, feel free to pause the episode to take a break from your listening practice and come back to the last part when you're ready. All right. So moving on to part three now. Enjoy.

Shana:
But recycling. I definitely love their system there. I love that they care so much about packaging in general. I mean, there was a store there that opened up when I lived there called Unverpackt means like unwrapped and everything in the store, which I think this should exist everywhere too. Everything in the store didn't have a package. There were no packages on anything. And if you think about how much packaging we have on cereal boxes, on candy bars, on whatever, it's like, that's a lot of garbage we're creating in a regular supermarket. [Yes]. And so I just thought that was a really cool idea to bring your own container, we'll weigh the container and then you only get you're going to get your eggs. You'll put them into your own container, You'll get your rice and your your beans or whatever it is, and you'll just kind of scoop it in yourself, into your into your own thing and go.

Charlie:
Absolutely, yeah. That is a very progressive kind of way of doing it. And I remember, yeah, in, in America, I was shocked by the amount of plastic bags. This was probably eight years ago. So I think they would double bag everything. And that ended up me having as many plastic bags as I needed for a whole year just after one supermarket trip. In Australia, they've got a shop called the Source Bulk Foods. So I think that's exactly what you're talking about. It's just you go in with your containers of Tupperware or stuff and you get your your nuts and your your mixes and your herbs and everything. And it's almost like a, you know what a pick and mix sweet shop is?

Shana:
Yeah. Like where you have the little bins or the little plastic containers filled with all the different types of candies? [Yes]. Is that it?

Charlie:
Yes. Yes, exactly that. Yeah. So you've got that shovel, you put it in into your own container and then away you go. So yeah, that is, that is very nice that Germany do that or focus on that kind of mentality. And we were relocated and the lady that showed us the things that we needed to know about focussed on recycling for probably about 80 to 90% of the conversation. It was an intense conversation. She was very passionate about it, which I appreciated, but I didn't I didn't really know that I was getting into a life of having, I think there were five bins in our kitchen. Yeah, I think there were like maybe five.

Shana:
Yeah. So this was, who gave you that speech?

Charlie:
The relocator in Nuremberg.

Shana:
Relocator. What do you mean by that?

Charlie:
When a when a person is successful enough to be given a corporate job and then relocated to another corporate job. [Gotcha]. I'm talking about Stacey, my partner, not me. And she was given a helper to land in the country and acclimatise to the environment.

Shana:
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I actually when I was doing my master's, I did a a class on integration and assimilation in Germany. And what's great is they actually have classes for people that are maybe maybe they moved there because they're refugees or they want to get like a permanent residency and you have to have a B1 language level in order to stay there for a significant period of time. But part of their integration courses are actually teaching culture, and a lot of it is recycling and, you know, stopping at the stop lights like when you're supposed to, don't like don't jaywalk. Do you guys call it jaywalking?

Charlie:
It's an American term that we've taken on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shana:
And sort of things like that. So I definitely think it does help teaching those things. And like, like if you talk about it enough, then people understand the importance of it. So I'm sure afterwards your five bins were filled appropriately, is what I'm getting at.

Charlie:
Yeah, they were. Yeah, it was. It was time well spent. And you just touched on another cultural difference. We, I think I've said this on the podcast before, but when I would be stood at the red light to cross the road whenever a British person gets an opportunity to cross, if there's no cars, will do it, especially in London. And we think it's efficient, we think it makes sense. We've judged the situation accordingly. And then I did it in Germany and I was yelled at by a woman and and I think my friend was yelled at even more aggressively by a woman, and he didn't understand what she was saying. And then he asked his German friend and she and he said, you're being called a child murderer because the association of good behaviour with standing at the light is reinforced.

Shana:
Yeah.

Charlie:
So if you don't do that, the children see that and then they start to copy you.

Shana:
Yeah. But that's.

Charlie:
THat's their kind of...

Shana:
Definitely a good takeaway too, I mean if you think about it like you run across a street in front of a kid, it is kind of crappy, you know? Like so that's probably something you were like or think about and are aware about now that you're not in Germany. You know? Like, I think there's these like, yeah, these, these important things that we learn when we live abroad that we wouldn't think of otherwise, that just make us better, better humans in a way.

Charlie:
I don't know though, I think it because I, I don't know if I'm right in saying this, but when I went to Colombia, the traffic was very chaotic, but it was organised chaos and they would cross lanes all the time and they knew how they would do it. And they were very, very intelligent in that sense. Whereas in Germany that rule is so protective that when I crossed, an old lady, she literally just started walking without looking because she thought I was going on a green. So she nearly got hit by a bus. So yeah, the protective rule could kind of make you a little bit, a little bit, uh, ignorant to the point where you get get your head caved in by a bus. So there's somewhat of a...

Shana:
Charlie, you should just.

Charlie:
A fine line there.

Shana:
Go. Go when it's green, Charlie, follow the rules.

Charlie:
Yeah, Yeah. In, in the country that it's culturally acceptable to do that.

Shana:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Follow the culture where you, you're, you're at. Yeah, you're right.

Charlie:
One thing I wanted to touch on before we go is the wonderful relationship Germans have with nature. Did you, in your time manage to get out to the lakes around you or the, the, the, the parks to go for a nice hike etc.?

Shana:
Oh yes. Well there are a lot of lakes near Berlin. So that was something that I did on a regular basis. I got out of my house or apartment and went running and so running around the lakes was lovely. Did you, when you were there?

Charlie:
Yeah, Yeah. And in the summer it would be like the place that people would gravitate towards. You'd take a 45 minute cycle with your beers in your backpack and then you'd get there. And this is what I wanted to ask you about. People would not only take their backpacks off, but also every item of clothing.

Shana:
Yeah, not everyone, but yes, that is definitely something that you would see in a they call it the FKK, FKK. Have you heard of that before?

Charlie:
I haven't, no. No, I assume I should have.

Shana:
Yeah, it's weird because I actually looked it up again before our chat just to see like if this term is used elsewhere. And Wikipedia said it's used in Europe in general, which I don't know, it means Freikörperkultur, which translates to free body culture. And so back in East Germany, when the wall was still up, they used to have a very free lifestyle, you know, go to the beach, go to the lakes and not wear any clothing, like, so it was a sort of nudist phenomenon that happened and it's still sort of exists today. So, yeah, at the Lakes, it's not uncommon. I don't know if how common it was for for you when you were there, if you were like ripping off your clothes. But for me it was more common to see it. I kind of went there. I was like the awkward outsider trying not to stare, but going, Wow, this is different for me. This is new. This is, you know, very clearly not the United States. Yeah. How was it for you?

Charlie:
It was so strange for me. We would go to these swimming pools that were like 20 minutes out of the city, which were lovely to spend time in, especially when it was hot or only when it was hot, really. And but it was it was like loads of fields around the swimming pool and it was kind of like fields that weren't treated as well as they would in, in America. I feel like your parks are very well designed and and maintained, but here it was just like a grass field and everyone would put their picnic stuff down and get naked and stand in a group and just have a coffee or a beer or something and literally just be bollock naked, just appreciating what you're chatting about. And it was like ten people around in a circle. Often it was older generations that were just incredibly comfortable with themselves and their life. But yeah, it was it was a real culture shock for me.

Shana:
But you know what? I think the nakedness awareness is something that's built from day one, you know, in your families. Like, I'm sure I mean, if it was odd for you, your parents probably weren't naked around you growing up, were they?

Charlie:
No. Not particularly. A little, I suppose. A little bit, but not.

Shana:
It's kind of an odd thing to think about, you know, But it's sort of true. Like if you're. It's for example, my dad would run out of the shower, throw on a towel, and it was like absolutely never, you know, see my dad naked, you know, That was just something that you don't don't do. And my mom, same thing. And because we don't have a sauna culture here or spa culture where nakedness is common, like people usually wear a towel inside of, if you're in a very hot, steamy sauna, then it's it's odd without it. Just like culturally, it's from day one. We don't have that. So yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes sense in Britain. You guys don't have the sort of Nordic or German spa culture, do you? Like the...

Charlie:
No, no, no, no. We're definitely going to die younger than Germans. Yeah, No, I do know what you mean. Totally. I wanted to ask though, with your friend that you would see- you see regularly- your best friend. Did you ever go on a family holiday with her and have to experience her parents getting naked and then them assuming you will also get naked?

Shana:
You know what? We actually did go on a trip when I was probably 18 to the north of Germany. There's a lot of different sauna, spa, spa areas. And we went to one and it was with her neighbour. Her neighbour drove us. And so that was odd. It was her, yeah, it was a male and a female, older. And they both got naked first thing when they got there. And for me, yeah, I was with Nina, my, my good friend and she was a little bit hesitant because she knew, I mean, she has an awareness of my culture and so it was a little bit odd for her just because of me. Like I guarantee with her friends it probably would have been perfectly normal to strip. But because I was there, it was this sort of like hesitant and she ended up getting naked. But it was it was a thing, you know, a very an elephant in the room, so to say.

Charlie:
Yeah. And the elephant was your your swimming costume on you.

Shana:
Yes,

Charlie:
Did you join in? Did you join in?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was the swimming, the bathing suit we say. Yeah. In the US.

Charlie:
Love it. Yeah. We, we had a friend, a British girl who was dating a German guy, and she felt very uncomfortable on holidays with his family because her potential father in law was getting his tackle out and they were all assuming that they would that she would get naked as well. It was quite funny because her name's Rose and I feel like a British rose being prude and shy in this naked situation was very stereotypical.

Shana:
Yeah, but I love that sort of thing. Like talking about this. It's, it's so culturally ingrained and so relevant for everyone in the world that this is a this is a topic of conversation. I had this the other day with a Norwegian who was at my house and we were talking about my good friend who was Finnish. When I lived in Berlin I had a good Finnish friend and he was talking about, 'Oh, everyone back home has two saunas', you know, And you know, this is just a normal thing. Like you go there with your friends, like, you know, they had the birch leaves. I'm not sure if you heard about this, birch branches, and you're supposed to hit each other so that it brings the blood to the skin. And it's more of an experience to go- I think after you get out of the sauna, you get hit with the your friend hits you with the birch branches, and then you go in the snow like.

Charlie:
Goodness me.

Shana:
Yeah. To get like the full experience. And then, I don't know, it's it's just really interesting. And, you know, he had his sorts of opinions about this whole thing and how important sauna culture is. And it's like, wow, this is this is a thing that we don't talk about in the United States ever. And I'm certain in England it's the same until you have those awkward moments with, you know, say,you said it was your sister and her boyfriend?

Charlie:
It was it was a friend that we met through Stacey's work.

Shana:
Got you. Got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear about it- You hear about it only when the awkwardness comes up.

Charlie:
Absolutely. No, I think I've heard of that whipping kind of thing. Yeah, I think I have. But I can imagine teenagers would take that too far.

Shana:
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, that's. I honestly would like to try that part of Finnish culture. I think that's really fascinating. You know, just these cultural experiences. I think it makes everyone more open minded in the end. You know, if you go into it, you go into it thinking, okay, this is a new experience. This is going to make me a better person. I'm going to be more respectful and open minded to things, and then you just do it. I think it's great. I mean, we we definitely did it while we were in Germany. I did it as a meetup group, which was hilarious.

Charlie:
As in you got naked as a meet up? What do you mean?

Shana:
Yeah. So I had a meetup group in Potsdam and we regularly met, I mean, on a weekly basis, maybe twice. And so I was really close to the people there. And, you know, as because the Finnish guy was part of that group, we were like, well, let's actually see if we're willing to break down our cultural barriers and go into a sauna, a German sauna, and, you know, be naked around each other. So, and it was fascinating to see how many people actually came. A lot of people came to this meetup and just like we were at one meetup one day fully clothed, and the next day, everyone was naked.

Charlie:
Love it. Love that. Just transition between clothed and then just let's do it. Let's go crazy!

Shana:
I'm talking about like ten, ten people, like ten people. Imagine, you know, a group of ten people and then suddenly you're all naked. Like it was a- it was a funny and, yeah, Cool thing to experience for sure.

Charlie:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, by the end of my experience in Germany, I was getting my kit off more comfortably in the locker room of the gym. I was walking around naked. I was... I think I did one sauna where I didn't take my trunks, but I did hold on to the towel. And then when I was lying down, I would I would expose myself. But when people came in, I would kind of put the towel back around me. I'd be like, Oh, this is awkward. But yeah, I did enjoy the freedom in the in the in the changing rooms. [Yeah]. Not feeling like you've got to instantly put your underwear on [Right] As soon as you're dry.

Shana:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's sort of funny. These sorts of things like things that you don't think about before. I actually on this topic, I remember when I was in Colombia going to a nude beach because it was like, okay, I've never done this before. Let's go to a nude, nude beach beach. And I got there and I realised, Oh wait, I'm the first one here. Like, what do you do as the first person on a nude beach? It's kind of creepy, right? Like, am I going to be the first one to sit here naked? Like, you kind of hope that other people are there first, like, especially a female, You know what I mean? Weird.

Charlie:
That is good. I really like that. Did you. Did you set the scene or set the tone?

Shana:
No, I thought, okay, no, this is. I've got it. There's got to be at least five people, you know, even like, if it's just two people, you're kind of like, Mm hmm. Or like, you have five people, maybe. Yeah, that would have worked. Yeah.

Charlie:
I noticed. This is the last thing I'm going to talk about nakedness, I think. But I noticed that in other countries where there was like a naked beach or nudist beach, sorry, Nudist beach, it was a bit more of a creepy thing where people would go because they really want to be around naked people. Whereas in Germany, because everyone did it, it was just much more normal and you wouldn't end up being near a creepy person. Do you know what I mean?

Shana:
Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. It's just normalised. The body's normal, you know? [Yeah] I like that.

Charlie:
Yeah. Much more healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so we've been going for a lot longer than I anticipated about the first thing that I was planning to talk about. But natural conversation took took the lead, which was fantastic. So thank you very much, Shana. We will leave it there. And yeah, I'll let you get on with your Halloween celebrations.

Shana:
Thank you so much, Charlie, for having me. It was really fun, especially talking about that last bit there because it's not something like I said that comes up in conversation. So. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Thanks so much.

Charlie:
I can imagine you'd get arrested if that was your costume tonight.

Shana:
Yes. Because you might be considered a sex offender and then your profile goes on the Internet and then people don't even move to your neighbourhood because they know where you live and they know everything if you pull out your, yeah, privates. Don't do it.

Charlie:
So, uh, don't do that. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah. Absolutely. All right, guys, if you want to listen to more of Shana, head over to the American English podcast. You can find it in the podcast app that you're listening to this on or head over to her website, American English podcast dot com. Thank you, Shana. I'll see you again soon. Have a good one. Bye for now.

Shana:
You too. Bye.