Transcript of S3/E5 - Pt 1 Transcript

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to the British English podcast with your host, Charlie Baxter. Today we have an episode with a friend that I have reached out to from the US, who I met back in around 2015 as she was my partner's colleague out in Columbus, Ohio. And since then, we've all kept in contact, so much so that we've visited each other in different locations throughout the world. And the last moment, I believe, was in Sydney, yes!

Charlie:
But over the last year or so, this friend that I'm talking about, who was born and raised in upstate New York, I believe, decided to uproot her life and move across the pond to the UK, and has been living in London ever since. And it suddenly dawned on me that I would take this opportunity to ask her about her experience. As I know, a lot of you guys listening are interested in the idea of moving to the UK, or at least knowing more about the reality of it. So here we go. Let's jump into the conversation with Katie. Hello, Katie, how are you doing?

Caity:
Hi, I'm doing well, thank you.

Charlie:
Good. It's-.

Caity:
Thanks for having me.

Charlie:
Ah, you're very welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much for taking the time. So it's- it's morning for you. You've just dropped off, Louis. Your dog, right, to the...?

Caity:
Yes. He's at day-care.

Charlie:
He's in day-care. Ok?

Caity:
Yes.

Charlie:
And you got Louis just when you move to London or a couple of months after?

Caity:
Yeah, a couple of months after. Really only about two three months after.

Charlie:
Right. Ok, yeah. That must have been a bit of a hurdle to get over to have a pet in a- in a new country, but I think we're jumping ahead of ourselves. Let's go back for everyone. What was the reason you decided to make the move to the UK?

Caity:
Well, I've always wanted to move to London, for years. I really- it's one of my favourite cities. It is probably my favourite city. But I decided to leave my corporate job to study psychology and I figured that would be- I was making this big change anyway, and I wanted to move to London, so I figured, why not do it at a school in London? So I applied for uni here.

Charlie:
Wow. So you've been at university the whole time?

Caity:
Yeah. So for the first year that I was here, I was at university. I'm finished now.

Charlie:
Ok. Ok, so you- you've been there longer than a year. I was asking Stacy and I was like, Is it two years? She was like, No, no, it's a year and a bit. I think.

Caity:
Yeah, a year and a bit.

Charlie:
Year and a bit. Ok. Ok, so you've done your year of uni. Was that a master's?

Caity:
Yeah. Master's degree.

Charlie:
With what uni?

Caity:
At Kingston.

Charlie:
Kingston. Yes, very close to where I was born and raised. Yeah, OK.

Caity:
Yeah. In fact, I think you, Stacy and I all met up in Kingston at one point on one of our many visits.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, that was- I think that was on the same trip that you got to experience the boot sale, wasn't it?

Caity:
Yes. Yes, it was.

Charlie:
Can you tell people about the boot sale, please?

Caity:
Yeah, you. I believe you guys were in the process of moving to Australia and they had things to get rid of. And so my option would be to be able to see you guys as to attend this boot sale. And we just rocked up to a field and everybody had their car boot open, which as an American, we would call that a trunk, the trunk of the car. So boot sale, the name of it in itself is misleading to me. But yeah, we got there and Charlie was a fantastic salesman.

Charlie:
But you remember at the beginning it was quite vicious.

Caity:
It was vicious. Yeah. And yeah, everybody was kind of mobbing the boot of the car. I don't know if we just had really good stuff or what, but people got really serious! Really, really into making sure they could check out what everybody had and didn't miss any treasures.

Charlie:
Yeah, so it was mainly clothes, a few pieces of furniture, probably not furniture, but mainly like, you know, whatever you can think of that you would want to sell if you wanted to move house and move country, that it wasn't worth bringing that stuff. That's in a boot sale. And there was like a whole huge field of it. And we were there from 7:00 in the morning, something very early, to probably 2pm or something, and...

Caity:
Yeah, and it was exhausting.

Charlie:
It was it, wasn't it? Yeah, I remember somebody stole a pair of trainers, but we won't go there. We won't dwell on that. So, OK, let's go back a little bit further. Was I right? You were born and raised in upstate New York?

Caity:
Yes, that is correct.

Charlie:
Ok, and then you got a job with Abercrombie and Fitch as a graphic designer.

Caity:
Yes, correct.

Charlie:
In Columbus, Ohio.

Caity:
Yes. And that's where I met Stacy and you.

Charlie:
Uh-huh. And then where did you go from then?

Caity:
From there, I moved to San Francisco, California, which is a fabulous city. I got a job with Gap, and then I was there for about five years.

Charlie:
Ok, gosh. Five years went quick, didn't it? Five years, wow. With Gap and I came to see you in San Francisco. Can you remember that?

Caity:
Mm hmm! Yeah!

Charlie:
I forgot about that until I was playing that little intro. So you were in San Francisco? And then why on earth would you go from such a beautiful city to London?

Caity:
Well, London is equally a beautiful city, just in its own- in its own way. Yeah, I've always really loved it here. The first time I ever visited London, I felt really at home straight away. Obviously, for me, it's a relatively easy transition. It's an English speaking country, so I didn't have to really struggle with the lang- I didn't have to struggle with the language barrier or too many cultural differences. There certainly are some!

Charlie:
Interesting. We'll get to them in a bit.

Caity:
Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I just always felt really at home here. And I love London and I've always really loved, I've loved the Brits. I've always had a lot of Brits in my life. So yeah, it just seemed like the natural next step.

Charlie:
Yeah. Ok, fair enough. Did you have Brits in your life growing up or it was after adulthood kind of thing.

Caity:
So it started in when I was in college. So I guess, I guess we would call that adulthood. But yeah, and then, and then really, it was Abercrombie that introduced me to you lovely lot.

Charlie:
I'm guessing that you, that you like British people, considering you've moved across the world to be around more of them.

Caity:
Yeah, I think it's safe to say that I do.

Charlie:
What would you say that you like about British people? Is there an obvious trait that you could pin down?

Caity:
I think the sense of humour is the big one. I- I think British people are very sarcastic and charming, kind of woven together.

Charlie:
That's a nice two (grammatically incorrect). I like those. What about some negative ones? I can't just, I can't just claim the positive ones.

Caity:
Well, I mean, there are also more positive ones. I would say. The Brits are also very warm and welcoming in, or at least in my experience. But negative ones ...

Charlie:
Go on.

Caity:
Maybe, OK, maybe this is from a Californian perspective, but maybe not as open minded as other places I've lived.

Charlie:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caity:
Not to say they're close minded, but, you know,

Charlie:
Open minded in terms of like what?

Caity:
Maybe they're just not quite as like woo woo hippy kind of things that I'm used to.

Charlie:
Does that come into like, to health kind of things that you're talking about or because...

Caity:
Well,

Charlie:
That was the degree that you kind of did, wasn't it?

Caity:
Yeah. My degree was in psychology. I'm very interested in mental health. I do think, on the more serious side of that, I do think there is a little bit more of a resistance to talking about your feelings and maybe directly engaging with some mental health talk topics. I think it's getting better, but of course, there's the just take it on the chin. Stay strong. Just knuckle down and deal with it kind of attitude. So, yeah, definitely. I think that has, I'd see that more clearly here.

Charlie:
Yeah. Ok, so a little bit more narrow minded or less open to the woo woo stuff. Anything other than mental health. When you say, Woo woo, what else?

Caity:
Well, I think again, I'm coming from a Californian perspective. So something you would do in California, if you moved into a- not just California, but if you moved into a new room or a new house, you would break out your dried sage and sage the room so you get dried- I've got it here. Dried sage.

Charlie:
Wow!

Caity:
And you would say you, you light it on fire and then you would just waft it around the room to kind of clear out any negative energy. And I was at, I was having drinks with some friends and they were all I think it was maybe four or five English ladies and then my good friend, who is Swiss and we had a new housemate. We had a housemate moving out and a new one, moving in, and I said something along the lines of, Oh well, we'll have to sage his room. And they were all like, Are you a witch?

Charlie:
That's exactly what I thought when you brought that sage out. Wow, that does look very witch-like!

Caity:
Yeah, right. Which is quite a common thing. It's just to me, I was like, Yeah, that's just what you do. But after that, after I said that, I was like, that was a real Californian moment.

Charlie:
So that's really normal in California.

Caity:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Charlie:
Really?

Caity:
Yeah.

Charlie:
And you're getting rid of the demons, or something? Is it based on Christianity?

Caity:
No, I don't know what it's based on. It's just- it's supposed to have cleansing elements to it, sage.

Charlie:
Right.

Caity:
And so it clears out any negative energy. It's more of an energetic thing.

Charlie:
Oh, my goodness me. Yeah, that is really, in my eyes, really hippie. I didn't know that about you. I didn't know you were that hippie.

Caity:
I mean, I'd like to think of myself as a middle ground hippie, not like a full blown hippie, but you don't spend five years in California without picking up some of this stuff, I don't think.

Charlie:
Some of the sage. Yeah, exactly.

Caity:
They don't let you in without it, really.

Charlie:
Wow. Ok, so why did you choose to live in London specifically? Did you- did you think about going to other places around England or the U.K.? I mean, you love Ireland, did you, did you not want to go there?

Caity:
I was debating Ireland for a little while. I think the draw has always been to London. Like I said, just because I love the city, just the energy of the city itself. And I've always been the type of person to live in a big city and enjoy a big city. I'm from a really small town and I think contrast to that, I've always, in my adult life, enjoyed living in big cities. So really, while I did consider Dublin and I did apply for some programmes in Dublin, London went out and it was just where I wanted to be. I will say since moving to London, I do really love it here, but I have started considering other places in England that I might live.

Charlie:
Ah! Ok, that's news to me. Where is on the short list for you?

Caity:
I don't think I'd go too far from London, but I am missing being near the water; somewhere more coastal, like maybe just out towards Essex on the coast a little bit more, but I still have access to London, but have, you know, have beaches and, and the water right near me. Additionally, I really enjoyed the Cotswolds when I went there, really lovely and I haven't been to Brighton yet, but I have a feeling I'd really like it there. And again, it's obviously that coastal kind of thing. So yeah, we'll see.

Charlie:
I reckon you'd find- you'd find some sage in...

Caity:
I bet, I bet, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't get those looks if I brought that up at a dinner party.

Charlie:
No, no, you wouldn't. That's so funny. All right. Let's do a little imaginary scenario of what you thought London would be like, a bit like Instagram versus reality, but painting a picture using words. So imagining what London- your dream of London would look like before you got here? And then we'll go on to the reality of it. But yeah, can you do that for us?

Caity:
Absolutely. So I think in my head, I was going to move here and live in a beautiful kind of terraced housing that you see. When you think, when you think of London housing, not Super Central, have this beautiful home that was designed beautifully. Wake up in the morning, have a cup of tea. Put on some fabulous outfit that you can only wear in London and commute to work. Be really happy on The Tube with my book, be in my office with my co-workers, then maybe go out for drinks afterwards. Just really loving Central London life and then commute home to my beautiful house and maybe sit in the garden on a summer's evening. I think that was the, that was my day to day kind of vision of what my life is going to be like here.

Charlie:
That's amazing. I really like that. That definitely painted a very vivid picture for me. When you talk about the housing, I'm imagining because you are a designer. Stacey is also a designer. I imagine you're pretty focussed on interior design and architecture. Can you kind of describe the architecture that you were envisioning when you, when you were wanting to go to London?

Caity:
So in terms of like the actual house, I kind of envisioned kind of just like the brown stonework, like the light brown stonework with bay windows that and, you know, I was kind of envisioning that. I think kind of- had in my head- a kind of more narrow house if it was terraced housing, right? But then having a lot of built in, you know, bookshelves and shelving units, things that felt really historical and lived in, but maybe with a modern update, beautiful kitchen, maybe with a glass ceiling, what do we call those? I don't know. But when when you know how they do an extension on a house and they put like a glass ceiling or skylight?

Charlie:
Oh, skylight...

Caity:
Yeah.

Charlie:
OK. I thought you meant like the patio doors being fully glass.

Caity:
That too, I think, that too. The extended garden is something I feel like I think of a lot here when I think of architecture in London, so you can sit and have a cup of tea while it's raining, that kind of thing. Yeah, I think- think of overall, I think an actual house, I think kind of dark colours and nice accents, like gold accents, and just really something that feels historical and lived in and homey.

Charlie:
Ok. And you also said about wearing an outfit that you can only wear in London. What's what's different about that? Can you explain..

Caity:
Yeah, so.

Charlie:
what fashion is like...

Caity:
So San Francisco is a very casual city, so you would not see people getting super dressed up. People don't wear suits to work. I mean, really, the order of, of the day when when you're walking around in San Francisco is jeans and a T-shirt. But in London, there's so much more of a sense of fashion. And I think because it's such a fashion hub, there are so many- it's just a very fashionable place, isn't it? I think you can get away with wearing a lot more like fun, trendy outfits or even just dressing up a bit more, I think. You see a lot more here. So, yeah, I think I saw myself really dressing up here and wearing some nice dressy outfits to work.

Charlie:
Yeah. And have you done that or has lockdown kind of mess that whole...

Caity:
Absolutely not.

Charlie:
All right. Let's go straight to the reality.

Caity:
So the reality is I moved here in the middle of a pandemic. I have really, for the first six months that I was here, we were in lockdown and now...

Charlie:
That's terrible.

Caity:
Now I work completely remote. So this idea of commuting and dressing up every day has completely gone out the window. And I, even when I was doing my master's programme, because of the pandemic, it was completely remote. So I came here to do this programme and I never once stepped foot on the, on the campus. Everything was remote, so I moved here and I was studying remote and I was working remote and I continue to work remote. So that idea of getting dressed up and going into an office and then going out for drinks afterwards has- it doesn't exist.

Charlie:
Oh!

Caity:
Yeah. So I moved here. And then that idea of getting dressed up and going and commuting into the office and then going out for drinks just- just completely disappeared.

Charlie:
So has it been particularly hard to, to make friends in the pandemic in London?

Caity:
Yeah, I think so. I think it's definitely something I've struggled with. Getting a dog has helped, for sure. A, because people are really excited to come talk to you because you have a cute little dog, but also you meet people who have dogs because you take them to the dog park and whatnot. But it definitely has been challenging. I think, when you move to a new place, oftentimes you make a lot of friends through work or university, if that's what you're doing, and I just didn't really have those two, two touch points to meet people. So yeah.

Charlie:
Definitely. Yeah, that is good, though. I remember because I came to Sydney and we did, too, dog sit. And I met so many people and I thought, it's actually quite a good way. It's a bit extreme, but it's a good way for people to practise their English because so many people talk to you, especially if your dog is friendly and they go up to people and, you know, stick their noses in their dog's bums, you've got an immediate meat queue.

Caity:
Exactly. I mean, it happens to me, probably on a daily basis that I stop and- stop and talk to someone about their dog where someone stops me to talk about my dog. And I do just think this is kind of going off topic a little bit. But I think just in general, dogs really encourage us as humans to communicate with one another. Because even if you're walking down the street by yourself, even if you're perfectly friendly, you might not smile or acknowledge or just generally communicate with someone else walking down the street. But if someone if you're walking with a dog, people smile, and that just immediately opens the door to, to conversation. So.

Charlie:
That is so true, especially. Yeah, I'm thinking babies and dogs.

Caity:
Yes.

Charlie:
Do this make this shift in adults? We just immediately have a- crack a smile with each other, and without that, we're just stone faced. All right. So lots of dogs and babies, that's a- that's- that sounds stressful, actually. I'm not sure if it's worse- worth the hassle. Go into the culture shock kind of thing. So when moving to a new country, culture shock is often part of the journey. Did you find that to be true?

Caity:
Yeah. Yes and no. Definitely. In some, I don't know if we would call it a shock, but definitely cultural things that I wasn't quite ready for, especially because I think I came into this thinking. I know a lot of- I've spent a lot of time in London previously before moving here, and I've got a lot of friends who are English, so there's not going to be any culture shock for me, and I was definitely wrong.

Charlie:
Ah, that's interesting. I did actually think that you would think that.

Caity:
I do think it's benefited me in some aspects, but some of the things that I found different, the supermarkets had to be the first one. That was a big one for me. They're very different. I think still to this day, I'm still adjusting to the supermarkets. I think any time you move to a new country, you have to get used to a new layout or the way things are set up. But in the supermarket specifically, all of the packaging is different. There is not the same brands that you're used to go- going to, and even some of the foods that I'm used- would eat. I can't find here. So, yeah, that's, that's definitely been a little bit of a challenge.

Charlie:
On the flip side, when we move to America, I- I'm- I'm going to ask you, Well, you're quite a healthy person, so I don't know if you do this. But were you shocked by the fact that the bread in the UK actually goes off quite quickly?

Caity:
Yes. Well, I wasn't quite as shocked because I knew that was something that you guys had. You had pointed it out to me, so it was something I was aware of before. But bread goes off very quick. I mean, everything goes off very quickly here. It has been a real eye opener to what's going on with the food in the U.S.

Charlie:
Yeah. And am I right in guessing that there's loads of preservatives and sugar? There's a lot of sugar in bread, in the bread.

Caity:
In the bread, in the milk. There's a lot of sugar and things that just sugar just doesn't need to be in.

Charlie:
Ah! Wow, OK. And anything else culturally, apart from the supermarket?

Caity:
Honestly, this sounds so silly, but this one was a big challenge for me: was walking down the street just which side of the street to walk down. Because, I mean, I intuitively think I just want to walk the way I walk. But people here walk down the side of the street the way you would drive here, which is the same way I would do it at home. So I would find myself like wanting to walk down one side of the street. Like, let's say I'm on the, I'm on the footpath. I would want to walk towards the right. But then everybody coming towards me was walking on the right, and so I would need to shift and walk to the left because it mimics the traffic patterns.

Charlie:
Yes!

Caity:
It sounds really, it sounds really silly, but I would get a little bit stressed out about it because I wouldn't- I would just be walking down the street and then I'd almost be like bumping into people and it's just me. It would fluster me and I'd be like, Oh, I'm not walking, I'm walking on the wrong side of the street.

Charlie:
Yeah, I can imagine one bad day for some reason, and you just flip out and you shout to everyone, Can everybody just stop and keep on the left?!

Caity:
Yeah. And people take it very seriously here. You know, which side of the the street you're walking, on which side you're standing on and not standing on, especially if you're commuting into Central London. So, you know, big things,

Charlie:
Ok, the escalators. It's quite a formal affair, isn't it?

Caity:
Yes, it is.

Charlie:
You've got to- you've got to know which side. And I actually get confused because I've been in a couple of different sides of the world now, like, sides of the escalators. So what side is it in London? Does it mimic the traffic in...

Caity:
Yeah, it does, because you would walk on the left and you'd stand on the right. So you would walk on the left as if you would drive on the left, and then you stand off to the right. So that's, that's how it is on the escalators. Yeah, and you do, you do-.

Charlie:
You don't want to go up in a hurry.

Caity:
Yeah, you do really have to get that right because you'll get some people coming behind you being, you know, clearing their throat really loudly and just kind of nudging you along.

Charlie:
I love that. That's like the aggressive version of a Brit, coughing loudly.

Caity:
You'd just get straight up yelled at if you were in New York, but here people are just like... (clears her throat)

Charlie:
Although I suppose that's quite bad nowadays, given the pandemic. That's like...

Caity:
Yeah.

Charlie:
... going to give you a virus! OK, so supermarket, side of the road, or anything else?

Caity:
There's always, there's always words that are different. In fact, someone pointed out to me yesterday that, and I don't know if this is just across the board, or if this is certain people, but that we say turtleneck, if you have like a high neck sweater that folds down, we would call it a turtleneck, whereas I believe you call it a roll, a roll neck?

Charlie:
Yes, we call it. Well, I would call it a polo neck.

Caity:
Oh, OK, that's also new to me.

Charlie:
I- I could be wrong, but I think there's a slang term for turtle necking, as in like there's a bit of poo coming out of your bum. Have you heard that before?

Caity:
I've not heard that. Truly, turtle neck, to me, it just means a high neck jumper.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Caity:
So..

Charlie:
That's a bit different, yeah.

Caity:
You've got to be careful with some of these because some of them, while some of them are kind of harmless. One of the big ones that I have to really pay attention to is not saying the word pants. So if someone's walking down the street and I like their trousers, I have to say trousers because if I say I like your pants, yeah, things get, things get...

Charlie:
I remember Americans find trousers is a very, very formal word. Do you feel.

Caity:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Uncomfortable, almost, saying it?

Caity:
It's definitely, I have to think about it. I have to think about saying trousers. You know, my- my instinct would be to say 'nice pants'. But it does feel very formal to say 'trousers', yeah, I feel like someone's wearing a suit.

Charlie:
Ok, so. Oh yeah. Where are you in London?

Caity:
I'm in southwest. So, near Wimbledon.

Charlie:
Right. Yeah, that's that's hopefully where we're ending up in a few years.

Caity:
Hopefully.

Charlie:
Hopefully, yeah. Why did you decide to go there? And were there other places that you looked at in London?

Caity:
I mainly did consider being southwest London only because Kingston, like the area of Kingston and where the university is, is southwest. I wanted to be between Kingston and Central, so I wanted to be a little bit more Central than actually living in Kingston. Because at the time, I thought I was going to be attending uni in person, on campus, so I wanted to be able to commute there easily enough. So, yeah, that kind of steered the direction for me. But I have, I actually really do enjoy East London as well. I've spent quite a bit of time there before moving here, and I think it's an area that I would consider.

Charlie:
Interesting. Ok. East London. So actually, that kind of comes to towards the end of Part One. So we will leave the conversation there, but pick it up in Part Two. I want to talk to you about the favourite places that you've been: restaurants, cafes, bars, et cetera. Museums, perhaps, ask you whether the weather is really that bad as, as they say it is, or as I kind of believe it is, you know. Some of the best apps that you use as well, maybe go into that. And then I've got about 20 other questions that I might throw at you. But yeah, that would be in Part Three.

Charlie:
So guys, thank you very much for listening to the episode today. If you are coming to Part Two, then I will see you there. But Katie, thank you very much for attending. So Katie is a designer, but is also- now has a master's in psychology in general- General Psychology?

Caity:
Yep.

Charlie:
And you have an Instagram account of your dog, which is very cute. I recommend people to check Louis out. What's his account name?

Caity:
It's @ louis L O U I S underscore OF underscore London.

Charlie:
Ok, @louis_of_london Yeah, nice. And you also said the other day that you were doing something about actually creating some art in a couple of months or something. What was that?

Caity:
Yeah, I'm working on a side project. I've always been into painting and illustrating. It kind of goes along with my design background. And so I'm working on starting my own business that is focussed on prints and paints. Some of them custom, some of them things that kind of speak to me, but they are all based around mental health and supporting mental health. And the idea is that once I start selling these, a portion of the proceeds would go to a mental health charity, which I'm still debating which one, but I'm leaning towards doing something along the lines of Samaritans that focus on suicide prevention.

Charlie:
Amazing. Amazing stuff. Okay, so guys, check the links out below. But yeah, thank you very much and we'll see you guys in Part Two, hopefully.

Caity:
Thank you!

Charlie:
We will be leaving Part One there for today, but don't worry, we have Part Two and Three round the corner for you to enjoy. But first, make sure you utilise all of the learning resources available to you for this part. And then when ready, I'll see you in Part Two to continue the conversation. Thanks again for supporting me. This is my full time job. So here's to many more episodes of the British English podcast to help you improve your English.