Transcript of Premium Bonus 060- Transcript

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to the British English Podcast with me, your host Charlie. And today, through outrageous popular demand, I've been getting endless emails saying, where is Ben from? Down under the historian that can quote anything about British history that is longer than 100 years ago. Would you say anything? Yeah, I think current you've just got no memory.

Ben:
I think that's a good boundary. Yeah. I mean, who's Tony Blair?

Charlie:
Well, there you go. You just said it. So welcome, Ben. Thank you very much for coming on again. Uh, last episode we did was about King Athelstan and King Rich. No.

Ben:
King William the Conqueror.

Charlie:
King William the Conqueror, of course. Yes. And today, guys, we're going to be doing Henry the eighth. So we're going to be diving into the life of this monarch whose name virtually every brit recognises. Um, I don't know about you, Ben, but I tend to think of the oblong face of King Henry the Eighth, the square picture of him like he looks really oblong with his chest, his shoes and his very big face. Yeah. That picture.

Ben:
Yeah. Well, of course his famous outfit. Is that sort of red...Uh, it's like a sort of a shirt that comes down to his waist and it's tied off, and it's sort of like a mini dress that comes above his, you know, it comes like in frills, above his knees. And then he wears those white stockings.

Charlie:
Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And he's a cornerstone of British cultural knowledge. I did just ask a couple of, um, my friends before coming here who have no interest in history, British friends. And they understand who Henry the Eighth is. So they remember him from our childhood years, and they know that he had six wives, which we will get into. That's a bit of a teaser for the listeners. But yeah, so he reigned from 1509 to 1547, apparently. Uh, Henry the Eighth is perhaps most notorious for his six marriages and the seismic shifts he initiated in the English religious landscape. But beyond the headlines, his impact was profound, shaping the very fabric of British society and governance. For example, he was an accomplished musician, or, um, he was also responsible for the creation of the Royal Navy.

Ben:
Yeah, I heard that he increased the naval size by times ten. Wow. Yeah. Wow. He was a probably a paranoid guy. He was worried about, you know. Yeah, the invading French and, uh, and, uh, Spanish.

Charlie:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so join us as we unravel the life of this larger than life king whose decisions continue to echo through history. So, Ben, do you want to kick us off with one of the first facts of the day?

Ben:
Yeah. Sure thing. Okay. So, as we know, Henry is probably the most famous of all monarchs. And probably to do with his, you know, the six wives and, um, something else we're going to talk about later. Um, but he's also the sort of the epitome of what we would consider the chivalrous king, the image of a British king that we see in movies and we think about when we think about British kings. Um, so let's start with the young Henry the Eighth. So before becoming synonymous with marital mayhem, he was quite the Renaissance man. Picture this an athletic, handsome king, fluent in multiple languages, a skilled musician composing his own tunes, and a sports enthusiast who could out joust anyone. In fact, he had such a bad jousting, uh, accident that he refused to ever joust again. At one point, um, he hit his head, I believe, and he had a concussion. Um, and some people believe that that changed his personality forever.

Charlie:
Yeah, I heard that he got a knee injury as well as being concussed for over, uh, like a substantial amount of hours. And they said that that that changed his mood from then on because maybe he couldn't joust again. He was sad about that. Probably. [Yeah] i was really good. Now I can't I just there's no video of him. There's no video evidence that he can say like, watch this.

Ben:
Yeah, yeah, I know once it's done, once he's done, it's done. Yeah.

Charlie:
Do you think they were more mindful back then like live for the moment?

Ben:
I would say so, yeah. I think because you can't record everything, you know, you've got to make sure that you can always show everyone. It's like the old party trick right before we had the cameras and and iPhones and everything, people would have this party trick and everyone would go, I've never seen that before. You've got to show me, you've got to show me. And they couldn't ever see it. So the party trick was a big thing I noticed that's disappeared, hasn't it?

Charlie:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've not been shown a magic trick since the like, invention of not invention of YouTube, but just the commonplace usage of it.

Ben:
Yeah, yeah, I feel like the party trick has definitely died off.

Charlie:
Oh, that's such a shame.

Ben:
Yeah. Now it's everyone gathering around someone's phone to watch something silly.

Charlie:
And I'm also thinking of that picture of New Year's Eve where people were on a bridge. I think it was in France. It could have been another country, but literally every single person had their phone up and they were recording what you could see. It was it was mental. [Yeah] but anyway, um, so he was a chivalrous man, uh, a very cultured man before he got gout and other things that effed him up.

Ben:
But I wonder if the the hit to the head was what sort of caused his, some would say crazy ventures into marriages, you know, this constant, [maybe] sort of erratic behaviour with partners.

Charlie:
Well, I think I've also realised that just exercising regularly keeps you very mentally stable. [Yes it does] and without that exercise, he's probably a different person.

Ben:
He was a big guy, wasn't he? I mean.

Charlie:
He's got to be.

Ben:
He became huge. How tall was he I don't know, wasn't he six four or something?

Charlie:
I don't know [actually] how tall Henry the eighth. Six feet.

Ben:
Six feet. Okay, well, that's still pretty big. Back then. I think Charlemagne was like six seven or something, which is crazy.

Charlie:
I don't know who Charlemagne was

Ben:
Charlemagne was the king of the Franks. He he was sort of the first ruler of the Holy Roman Empire after Rome fell. But this was in like the 700's, he united all the sort of Frankish kingdoms.

Charlie:
Right? And for anyone who doesn't use feet 182cm for Henry. For Henry, that's big back then.

Ben:
That's very big back then. [Yeah] yeah.

Charlie:
Not as much cow's milk.

Ben:
No, I mean, he probably had his pick, but. Yeah, well he had.

Charlie:
Six wives to, to sort of bitty from.

Ben:
But no wonder once they gave him a child they eventually they run out don't they. And you have to get another one. What's that saying. Uh, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Charlie:
What does that mean?

Ben:
It's just a just a.

Charlie:
I know I get the metaphor, actually. Yeah.

Ben:
I don't know if I've used it correctly there. It's there's some mixed metaphor there. I don't know.

Charlie:
Why buy the cow when the milk is. No. That's right.

Ben:
Means why make a commitment to a woman when you're getting the sex on the side?

Charlie:
Oh, okay. So it's a specifically sexual thing

Ben:
But it doesn't really have anything to do with what we're talking about. We just happen to be talking about cows and getting milk from your wife.

Charlie:
Uh, it's a, um, it's often used to discourage people, particularly women, from giving away their romantic sexual favours too easily or without commitment from their partner. Now, this ties in very nicely with the second wife, doesn't it?

Ben:
Yes, indeed.

Charlie:
But we won't- we won't go there.

Ben:
We won't go there yet.

Charlie:
Well, we will come to wife number one. Um, after this quick question, uh, that I'd like you to read. Actually, no, I'd like to read for you to answer. Potentially. Um, so if Henry the Eighth was a modern day man. And he, you know, felt like YouTube was his calling. What do you reckon his channel would be?

Ben:
About 100%. It would be about, uh, MMA why? He's this big guy who participated in the death sports of the time, you know, jousting and probably sword fighting tournaments. That was the MMA of the time. You know, I would say he'd be very interested in that rough housing. Okay.

Charlie:
MMA being mixed martial arts. Yeah.

Ben:
You know what? I actually think that in his early years, he would have been about something like that sport or something like that, if he was alive today and in his later years, probably something about, you know, religion and law.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, I. Can see that. [Yeah. Something like that] yeah. I think he might have a podcast.

Ben:
Yeah. About religion and law. [Yeah. Yeah] yeah.

Charlie:
And, and then if people come on and they disagree with him, he just immediately cancels them.

Ben:
Yeah. Yeah I see him as a Joe Rogan type.

Charlie:
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Ben:
Okay. Um, so Henry's first marital venture was the Catherine of Aragon. Is it Aragon or Aragon?

Ben:
Aragon. Catherine. Look, I did go middle there, didn't I? I made no commitment either way. I did, man. There was no commitment in that. Uh, I'm just going to say Aragon, because that's what it I think Aragon I've heard.

Charlie:
Okay. Because I felt like if I say Aragon, I'm just thinking of Legolas and Aragon

Ben:
From Lord of the rings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he took a lot of stuff from all this, but yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah, Okay. Okay. So, Aragon, forgive us guys. If we get that wrong, the Spanish people will know this best because it's from Spain. Aragon is a region...was a region within Spain.

Ben:
It was a kingdom.

Charlie:
Kingdom? Yes. Um. So Catherine was a princess from Spain? Actually, I should say her full name all the time, because there's loads of Catherine's. So Catherine of Aragon, a princess from Spain who was originally married to his brother Arthur, um, Henry's brother. Their marriage was not just a union of two hearts, but a strategic alliance between two powerful countries.

Ben:
Yeah, so basically, this was a strategic alliance between England and Spain. So Henry's father, Henry the Seventh, had wanted to create and foster good relations with what is modern day Spain. And so arrange for Catherine of Aragon to marry his first son, Prince Arthur. That was Henry's older brother. So Catherine was the daughter of Isabella, the first of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon. They were two major kingdoms in that region in Spain at the time, so she was the product of two competing kingdoms uniting. Right. Uh, and then, um, when she was three years old, she was betrothed to Arthur. And then they married

Charlie:
When she was three?

Ben:
That's right. An arranged marriage was a very common thing back then between royal families,

Charlie:
But that...She didn't obviously marry him when she was three.

Ben:
No, no. Um, although I wouldn't put it past him back then, but.

Charlie:
Wow. So how old...do you know? How old she was when she married King Arthur?

Ben:
She was aged 16. So was she married him in 1501 at age 16.

Charlie:
Do you know how old he was?

Ben:
Um, he was 16 as well, or 17. So they were pretty similar in age.

Charlie:
Okay. So they they were born around the same time and their parents were like, these guys would look good together in ten years.

Ben:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So it's like it was a political alliance. And they also thought about how well they looked. Um, so Arthur died five months later, actually, after they got married of an unknown illness. Uh, unknown illness. Um, probably like tuberculosis or plague or influenza or something.

Charlie:
That sexual disease?

Ben:
Who knows...Who knows...

Charlie:
Sexually transmitted disease?

Ben:
Yeah. I mean, the doctors back then really solved everything with leeches and stuff, didn't they? So they didn't know what they were talking about. [Yeah] um, so Henry wanting. So Henry the Seventh, who was Henry the eighth? Father wanted to keep his plans intact. And because Arthur, his oldest son, had died, he then decided to arrange for Catherine to marry his next oldest son, uh, and the next in line to the throne. Who was Henry the Eighth.

Charlie:
Right. Okay, there we go. Um, I also heard that she. So he died. Arthur died, and then she had to wait around in England for about seven years. [Yeah] whilst Henry made his mind up. And then they married.

Ben:
Actually, I think it was until Henry became of age.

Charlie:
Oh, so he wanted her. He just couldn't have her.

Ben:
Well, he was 16 or something or 17 when he married her. It was something like that. And she was like, you know, early to mid 20s or something. So she had to wait around all that time.

Charlie:
Okay. So I should also add, over two decades they tried for an heir. So this for me is is news because I look at Henry the Eighth and I think six wives, you pig. That's horrible to do that. And and we will get to the rhyme of what Brits remember and probably Aussies remember of King Henry the Eighth and how he treated his wives. Not great, let's be honest. And, um, the 20 years to his marriage. His first marriage. That's pretty good going.

Ben:
Yeah. He did, he was, you know, I'm wondering, was this before he fell off his horse and hit his head? [Yeah] seriously?

Charlie:
Yeah, this sounds like the beginning of a nursery rhyme. Humpty dumpty. Henry the Eighth sat on a wall married to Katherine of Par. No, is it Katherine?

Ben:
Wait. What? Hang on. [Aragon] I'm not even joking. Wasn't that about Henry falling off his horse?

Charlie:
Oh, no. Was it really?

Ben:
I don't...I think it might have been.

Charlie:
It's Humpty Dumpty.

Ben:
About King henry the Eighth.

Charlie:
About Cardinal Wolsey from Henry the Eighth's era.

Ben:
I knew it was something to do with Henry the Eighth.

Charlie:
Another idea says the rhyme refers to King Richard and his defeat at the Battle of Bosworth.

Ben:
I think they're talking about his change of personality when he fell off his horse.

Charlie:
Right.

Ben:
That's what I thought I remembered it being. But I might be wrong.

Charlie:
It makes sense.

Ben:
But yeah, interesting thought anyway.

Charlie:
It is.

Ben:
That's something for all of you guys to go and research. [Yeah,Uh] write to us at PO Box...

Charlie:
Um, I don't have a PO Box yet. yes

Ben:
Well, you're building up slowly.

Charlie:
Yeah, and they're expensive... Anyway. Um, so 20 years together. Fair effort. Right. Um. Pretty good. They tried for an heir facing personal tragedies with multiple stillbirths and infant deaths. That's not fun by any means, which put immense strain on their relationship, which I can understand. The lack of a male successor led Henry down a path of desperate measures, sparking his eventual quest for annulment, shaking the foundations of England's relationship with the Catholic Church. So this is a huge moment, huge, huge moment in history. Um, what do you reckon? Um, if Henry was alive today, would would he be keen to use IVF if it were available.

Ben:
Without a shadow of a doubt. I mean, he went as far as a king could possibly go to get a son. I mean, if IVF had been around, he would have gone. Yeah, just give me that. This is so much easier.

Charlie:
I mean, they they were clearly able to get pregnant. So maybe IVF isn't the answer for them, but I think in some super, super genetic kind of clever IVF you can choose the gender can't you? I think there's something about that out now.

Ben:
I'm not sure. I actually I have no idea. Yeah. Um, but I'm definitely sure that if that option was available, he would have done it. I mean

Charlie:
You don't think he would...he would feel like he's cheating the religion, like...

Ben:
I don't think he cared about the religion.

Charlie:
No he didn't.

Ben:
I mean, I think that's quite obvious.

Charlie:
Yeah um, so we're...we're going into the next wife now, but I feel like we should talk about what we just mentioned. Well, do you want to go for it?

Ben:
Uh, yeah. Well, we can talk about it as we as we talk about Anne.

Charlie:
Yeah Okay. Nice. [Yeah] so who's Anne?

Ben:
So Anne Boleyn was Henry's second wife, and she's often remembered for her tragic end. But her story is a testament to her influence over Henry and the entire kingdom. The whole of England. Um, now, her refusal to become just another mistress of Henry's led to an unprecedented religious and political upheaval. So Henry's determination to marry Anne basically saw him challenge the Pope's authority, which initiated the English Reformation.

Ben:
And what is the English Reformation?

Ben:
So basically, um, Henry wanted to divorce Catherine, uh, which you couldn't do at the time. Right. Um, so he asked his head, Cardinal, uh, Cardinal Thomas Wolsey, which you've probably heard of his famous name. Um, he sent him to visit with Pope Clement the seventh, uh, to request a divorce. [Okay] now, divorce at this time was very frowned upon by the Catholic Church, and you would need a bloody good reason.

Charlie:
But I did hear that it was possible. And it had happened in the past. And often they would they would say it was because they're too it's too incestuous. It's they're too related. But often, um, they would actually just be not happy, but they would just be like, oh, well, they can't be together because we realised that they're like brother and sister.

Ben:
That's so funny that that's the reason that they all used because they just knew they're like, well, when it suited them, they're like, yeah, all right. And then when they don't want it anymore, they're like, this is disgusting.

Charlie:
But I heard that he couldn't do this or King Henry the Eighth couldn't get this annulment because King King Charles the Fifth.

Ben:
Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie:
It didn't like him. He didn't like King Henry and King Charles the Fifth had authority or influence over the Pope.

Ben:
Exactly. It's perfectly correct. So basically, what happened was, uh, Henry sent Wolsey to argue that, um, the marriage was invalid based on the fact that she had already married his brother. Yeah. Um, the pope refused. And the reason for this refusal, as you said, was that Charles the Fifth, who was the Holy Roman Emperor at the time, um, and he was the most powerful man in Europe, was also the nephew of Catherine.

Charlie:
Yes, yes. Yeah. He's like, well, you just divorced my mum No, no, Auntie.

Ben:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it was his mum as well. [Yeah] uh, he wanted to keep Catherine as Queen of England.

Charlie:
I got, I got a got to be honest though, that's not a great excuse. What they said, um, that Catherine married...was married to his brother before. [Um] like, that's not that's not bloodlines confused?

Ben:
No. I think it might have something to do with her...like the...There's an assertion that she may not be a virgin.

Charlie:
Oh I see.

Ben:
Look, don't quote me on that. I'm not an expert on on Catholicism. And there you know, the intricacies of that with the, with the, you know, the, the royal families. But I think it has something to do with them having to be a virgin or something. [Right] um, you know, I don't know if it's a hard and fast rule, but he can use it as a reason. [Yes] okay, okay. Um, but yeah. So basically, Charles the Fifth, uh, who was the Holy Roman Emperor at the time? Most powerful man in Europe. He wanted to keep his, um, uh, his auntie as, uh, Queen of England. So, um, yeah, he basically threatened the Pope to, uh, that he had to refuse this request.

Charlie:
Ah okay. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes total sense. [Yeah] we have come to the end of part one, so feel free to take a break from your listening practice, but if you're happy to keep going, then we're now moving on to part two of this episode. Thanks so much for being a premium or Academy member and enjoy the rest of the show.

Ben:
And so now, Henry getting this refusal basically he's still is going to proceed with this, he's a bullheaded man, as you know. And uh, he just says, all right, I'm going to sort this out my way.

Charlie:
My way or the highway, baby. [Yeah, yeah] haven't invented highways, but I know the phrase.

Ben:
Um, so Henry basically did something now which changed the course of English history forever.

Charlie:
Ding dong. What did he do?

Ben:
Well, what he did was he looked around, and he saw in Europe that there was a growing Protestant movement, um, based on the teachings of Martin Luther and so on.

Charlie:
And I only learned this recently. Protestant is basically a religion or movement away from Pope led religion, right?

Ben:
It's a movement specifically away from the Catholic Church, because the Catholic Church at the time was seen as corrupt. And, um, they weren't, um, seen as worshipping God properly. Okay. Um, you know. Yeah, it was just full of corruption, basically.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Ben:
Um, and it was not what a lot of people saw as a pure way to, um, to praise God, basically.

Charlie:
Okay.

Ben:
Um, so there was this powerful movement happening in Europe at the time, and he decided to leap on this, [mm..] this opportunity and so [smart!] Yeah. I mean, bloody smart. I mean, he had a lot of very good counsellors around him, actually.

Charlie:
Yes. Was there a Thomas something like.

Ben:
Thomas Moore...?

Charlie:
What?

Ben:
I've forgotten the name of his counsellors. Um, they're very famous names, and I can't. They've just, uh, escaped me. Why don't we look it up? Let's look them up. [Yeah ok] who were Henry's counsellors? Let's have a little look here.

Charlie:
Oh, Thomas Wolsey. W-Wolsey

Ben:
He was the cardinal.

Charlie:
Yeah. You talked about him already.

Ben:
Yeah, but he had his counsel. So, so, Thomas More.

Charlie:
Ah, that was it.

Ben:
Cromwell.

Charlie:
Yes.

Ben:
Yeah so, Thomas More and Thomas Cromwell were the two big ones.

Charlie:
I say. Cromwell just for the listener.

Ben:
Uh, okay um.

Charlie:
But Australians might say that.

Ben:
Yeah. Um.

Charlie:
You don't need to reflect on it.

Ben:
It's a it's a point to reflect on. I was just thinking. You really got me thinking then, uh, about the way I speak. I can't continue under this...

Charlie:
You just turn British instantly.

Ben:
Uh, so Oliver Cromwell, I thought that was more British than Australian saying, Cromwell.

Charlie:
I know what you mean there.

Ben:
Cromwell. Cromwell.Yeah. I think you're trying to buck the posh in you, and I'm trying to gain a bit of posh. You know, it's like grass is always greener on the other side, right?

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Um] although it's quite brown in Australia.

Ben:
Yeah. It's not, it's not that it's a shock when you go to Europe and you see that the greenness of the grass, it's amazing.

Charlie:
The grass is always greener in Europe [Yeah] That's the phrase.

Ben:
Yeah that's that's the phrase. Um, uh, so wait, where are we up to? Um. Oh, okay. Uh, he seizes this opportunity when he sees his growing Protestant movement around Europe with the teachings of Martin Luther, and he decides to separate the Church of England from the Catholic Church and create the Church of England or the Anglican faith.

Charlie:
Okay, so...Can I just ask, who is Martin Luther? Because he's obviously not the guy that we know of Martin Luther King. Like I think of that person.

Ben:
Martin Luther was a, uh, I think he was German. He was German or Czech, something like that. [Okay] um, and he was very unhappy with the Catholic Church. And so he started his own teachings about, um, a move towards a more pure, um, you know, the pure the Puritans, uh, in England and Europe, they were very all they did was praise God and, you know, worship God. And they there was no indulgences and none of this, none of that. Right. It was a reaction against the indulgences and corruption of the church to a more pure way of [right, right] worshipping God.

Charlie:
Okay, okay. So sorry I sidetracked you.

Ben:
So that started the whole... So he started the Reformation in Europe, the Protestant, the Protestant Reformation.

Charlie:
And that came to England. Henry the Eighth was horny for Anne and then he was like, right, let's just do a reformation in England.

Ben:
Exactly, exactly. And he basically, um, he separates, uh, England from the Catholic Church through the parliament. And he created the Church of England, which is the Anglican faith we know today. Um, and in Parliament, importantly, he passed the Act of Supremacy. So that's what changed the faith. So what that does is it names himself as or the monarch as the head of the church, as opposed to the pope in Rome.

Charlie:
Big moment, big moment.

Ben:
Yeah he also created the divine right of kings, which was used from then on in England, which basically it's claiming you're that you are given the right to rule by God. So it's unquestionable, it's an unquestionable act of God. You can't be supplanted. Nothing on earth can supplant this ruling of God.

Charlie:
Wait, so the King is speaking through, you know, God is speaking through the king.

Ben:
Yeah he's the divine right of kings. God has appointed this king by birth,

Charlie:
Right okay. So which probably kept the royal family going in England longer because they were like, oh my God, it's it's by God.

Ben:
Yeah. And of course like they everyone believed in God. I mean, this was the thing, you know. And so he made himself the pope of his own church basically.

Charlie:
Wow it's such a big moment in English history. And it's also interesting because I heard that Anne's sister Mary. Henry had an affair with Mary and he slept with her. [Yes] and Anne was like, I'm not sleeping with you until you marry me.

Ben:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlie:
So Mary could have been. [Yeah] the big change. [Yeah] but she decided to have it off with him. Yeah. And Anne was... It's amazing to think what one woman who just said no to somebody [yeah] could do.

Charlie:
We have come to the end of part two now. So again, feel free to pause the episode, to take a break from your listening practice, and come back to the last part when you're ready. All right. So, moving on to part three. Now enjoy..

Charlie:
To the history of...Yeah,

Ben:
Totally. Yeah. I mean, um, I always think that he kind of did that out of spite as well, because he banished her from his court. He banished Mary and sister from court because he fancied her, as you say. Yeah. Uh, she chose to marry someone else, and he banished her from court.

Charlie:
Who, Mary chose to marry someone else?

Ben:
Yes. That's correct.

Charlie:
Oh, so she slept with him?

Ben:
She had an affair with Henry? [Yeah] um, but then she chose a different husband, I believe. And he was unhappy with the situation. He banished her from court. [Right] and then he went after her sister. And I feel like it was a spiteful move.

Charlie:
Oh, yeah, it would be. [Yeah] I'm gonna. I'm gonna marry your sister.

Ben:
It seems a very. Henry the eighth thing to do.

Charlie:
Pre and post [yeah] Joust...Bash.

Ben:
He titled himself, by the way, as not just. He didn't call himself the Pope. He called himself. His official title was the Supreme Head on Earth of the Church of England.

Charlie:
Now, if that guy doesn't have an ego, I don't know who does.

Ben:
That's 'coz he's mental.

Speaker4:
That is absolutely bonkers. Okay, so that was that was Mary and Anne's sisterhood. Um, but what happened to Anne in the end? Because that was number two of six. What what happened to her?

Ben:
Oh, so she, uh, basically they were married for only three years, and, um. Yeah, she couldn't bear him. She didn't bear him a son. And I think he was desperate to have a son at that time. Um, and he executed her on trumped up charges in three years after they got married.

Charlie:
Oh, I also heard she spoke her mind, and she was very annoying for him. She was not dismissed. Uh, what's the right word? Caving to someone's pressure

Ben:
Oh, she wasn't um...Hang on, I've got it: submissive.

Charlie:
Submissive. Yeah. She wasn't submissive. And obviously King Henry the Eighth hated that. Um, so their marriage was a pile of poo.

Ben:
Okay. I didn't even know that.

Charlie:
Yeah. So three years, you say?

Ben:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. Uh, she didn't give him an heir, a male heir. Sorry, but she did give him who?

Ben:
Elizabeth. [Elizabeth] who later became the great Queen Elizabeth the first. The last of the Tudors. Uh, and Elizabeth, obviously, we can talk about her in another podcast.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, just to get an overview. The Tudor period, this is what we're talking about right now. The 1500s, I think maybe earlier. Did it bleed into the the century before that?

Ben:
Uh, yes it did. I mean, Henry was born in 1491.

Charlie:
Oh, right. Yeah.

Ben:
Yeah. And his father was a Tudor.

Charlie:
Um, so is it their surname?

Speaker2:
Tudor is their surname.

Charlie:
Tudor's their surname?

Ben:
Yeah, so the his father came out of the War of the Roses. Came out of victorious out of the War of the roses. So Henry the seventh.

Charlie:
Who was...What what surname was before that? Do you know?

Ben:
I don't remember.

Charlie:
No? But, um, the Tudor period. Is that a dynasty? [Yes] yes. Okay. So how many kings or queens were Tudors?

Ben:
Okay, well, let's go through, we had Henry the seventh. Henry the eighth. Then we had, um, his son. Um.

Charlie:
Arthur. No. Edward.

Ben:
Edward. Edward. Yeah. Edward the sixth. And then we had Bloody Mary. Uh, then we had, um, so Mary the first, and then we had Elizabeth and then she didn't have an heir. So we had five Tudors. And then after them came in the Catholic, uh, Scots, the, the.

Charlie:
Mary Queen of Scots. Yes. Yeah.

Ben:
She appointed uh, I can't remember James or something. James the first. No, he was the last one. But the, um, the Stuarts came in after they were a Scottish Catholic family.

Charlie:
Ah yeah. So in school in the UK, we used to do these subjects obviously, and in primary school. So it was really basic. We were just sticking little pictures on and stuff. But it was yeah, we had the Tudor period and then the Stuarts.

Ben:
The Stuarts. Yep. They were Scottish.

Charlie:
Yes okay. Yeah I think I remember doing that as well. Anyway, so that's an overview. Um, did you see because you came to London last year, did you see where Anne Boleyn was executed?

Ben:
Yeah I did, yeah, yeah. So, uh, in the Tower of London, um, if anyone ever does a tour, there's a spot on Tower Green. Uh, it's got a sort of like a an aqua or a light blue memorial. It's like a dish. It looks like a big dish. And that is the spot where, um. Yeah. Where Anne Boleyn had her head chopped off.

Charlie:
Right...Savage! Absolutely savage. So this is because he didn't like her, um, any more for being for not being submissive and not giving him a male heir. [Yeah, probably] and he chopped her head off? [Yes.] Mad...

Ben:
Yeah. Madness. Yeah. Absolute madness.

Charlie:
Uh, we've got four more wives. Let's do. Let's do one more wife. And then we'll have to split this into another episode, because we're already at 43 minutes. Okay and I don't want to end it. Edit too much of this down. So yes.

Ben:
Well, why don't we just split it here? Because the last... Jane Seymour's got a little bit in it, and then the other two are not that long. [Okay] I have three. Let's end it there.

Charlie:
Actually, let's, um, let's end it on this last little discussion question I had for you. So if if this is very, um, naughty of me, if Anne Boleyn could leave a Google review of the Tower of London, what would it be?

Ben:
Had a great time. Met a few blokes. Uh, had a few drinks, had a few laughs. Um, didn't like the garden service.

Charlie:
Very good. Got any more? I'll inspire you with a Chat Gpt one, obviously. Guys. Deaths. Terrible. Um, I'm not laughing at Anne Boleyn. I'm just making light of education. Hope you won't, um, cancel me for this. Okay, so, um, chat GPT joke review for her a towering disappointment. Pretty good. That's the headline. That's good. Um, came for the marriage, stayed for the execution. The accommodations were a bit too permanent for my taste.

Ben:
That was good.

Charlie:
On the bright side, the view was to die for two stars because the Ravens were good company would not recommend for extended stays. It's pretty good.

Ben:
Yeah. That's good, that's good.

Charlie:
Yeah, uh.

Ben:
That's scary that ChatGPT did a better job than me.

Charlie:
No comment. Right, guys, we will leave this part here and we will resume with Henry the eighth, part two in a couple of weeks time. So look out for that. But thank you very much Ben, for this first part. Most enjoyable. Thank you sir.

Ben:
Oh yes sir. Yes I can't wait. Uh, we'll do that soon.

Charlie:
Bye guys.

Ben:
Bye bye.

Charlie:
There we go. The end of part three. Meaning the end of the episode. Well done for getting through the entirety of it. Make sure you use all of the resources available to you in your membership. Thanks once again for supporting the show and I look forward to seeing you next time on the British English Podcast.