Transcript of Talking with a British Chef.mp3

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to the British English podcast, the show that helps non-native learners better understand British, English and British culture. In today's episode, I am blessed with the presence of my partner's father because of, well, two reasons, really. One, because he has a passion for cooking and has been a chef in multiple places around the UK, including the Hilton Hotel in London. And the second reason is because he's gotten into the habit of doing voice messages on WhatsApp with his daughter, who often plays them with me in earshot. And I mean, these voice notes sometimes go on for ten, 15, maybe even 20 minutes at a time. And I've got to say, he manages to keep us entertained from start to finish. I thought, why not ask him about his relationship with British foods and the journey he has been on within the hospitality industry in general here in the UK, as I imagine some cultural things will be scattered throughout for you as a listener to again, hopefully better understand the life of a Brit. Just to say, Paul, Stacey's father, was born and raised in in a small village in the Shropshire hills, which is west of Birmingham, still in England, but not too far from the Welsh border. Also, I should include that in this episode, Paul does talk about how involved he and his family were with preparation of meat. So apologies if you find that kind of stuff a bit triggering. But yes, please enjoy this interview between myself and hopefully my future father in law, Paul.

Charlie:
All right. So welcome, Paul. We're in your house right now, just in the lounge or the dining room area, and the kitchen's behind me, which is where you're going to be spending quite a lot of your day today, aren't you?

Paul:
That's right. Yeah. We've got some vegan friends coming over for dinner this evening. We've not seen them for some time. Just a great way of getting us all together, all the family's coming over. I'll be spending pretty much most of the day cooking over the stove.

Charlie:
Yeah, And vegan, you say. Is that something that you feel like is coming, becoming more popular?

Paul:
It definitely is, yeah. Definitely been a bit a change of the ways. Yeah. I suppose people are more conscious of the planet and saving Earth and all of that. I'm not a particular fan of it really. I think we are carnivores and we should eat meat, but that's up for debate. So there is a meat dish this evening as well.

Charlie:
Okay.

Paul:
For me!

Charlie:
And you won't be forcing that on the vegans.

Paul:
I may.

Charlie:
What would you say to a vegan who would say, 'I'm doing my bit, I'm helping the planet in my way, so I'm helping you in a way?' What would you say to that?

Paul:
Well, I just think it's all about moderation, really. Everything in moderation. Obviously, we have a huge problem because we produce so much meat that's causing all these problems running out of space to feed all the animals, etc.. But yeah, I just kind of think moderation really, which is what we kind of do in our family. Obviously, meat is an expensive commodity now, so we don't eat meat every night, you know, probably two or three times a week. And you know, there's a lot of food. I think that is obviously naturally vegan, which you don't have to shout about as being vegan. You know, we eat lots of salads and always have done all my life I have and always fresh vegetables out of the garden, etc.. But it just needs to be in moderation, I think.

Charlie:
Yeah. And so how many meats would you eat in a week?

Paul:
Probably three meats.

Charlie:
Okay. Yeah, that's fairly reasonable, I'd say. But back in the day when you were getting into food as a profession, which we will go into later, do you feel like it was meat and two veg was a staple of the British diet?

Paul:
When I look back, I realise I was very, very fortunate with my childhood upbringing because of where we lived and obviously my parents etc. So we lived in rural Shropshire in- miles away from any town and certainly cities. We had a local butcher, a local village shop and it really was just a tiny little village. But in addition to that, we had, when I was very young, we had pigs which we had in the garden, we had chickens running around and from a very early age I knew that these animals were going to feed us. Just accepted that. I mean, it wasn't a problem to us. I mean, the pig was called Percy. We'd come home from primary school and he would be up on the wall greeting us. So he was kind of a pet, really. But we always knew one day we were going to eat him, which is [So...] maybe a bit weird, but yeah.

Charlie:
So how many years did you have him as a pet?

Paul:
I was very young, so. So just try and let me think. I was probably only about four or five years old. I guess we'd have him for a couple of years, wouldn't we? Yeah, and chickens were running everywhere.

Charlie:
Wow. This sounds like. Have you seen the show The Good Life?

Paul:
Yeah. I mean, it wasn't far off that really. Mum and Dad obviously work, so we weren't self-sufficient by a long, long way. And of course, my mum worked for the estate, for the Millichope estate in the Corve Dale, which is surrounded with, with woodland etc.. So they would do the pheasant shoot, shoot duck, pheasants, partridge, rabbits, all that kind of thing I was brought up with. And my earliest memories really of food was I remember we had a great big scrub oak table in the kitchen and it would be heaving full, piled up with dead pheasants, you know, rabbits, all that kind of food, which we would dress. So, you know, we would be plucking them, we would be getting all the innards and everything out. And and then we would eat it.

Charlie:
At an early age, introduced to the idea of where your meat, where your food comes from. And and you were part of that process.

Paul:
Yeah, and I think what is certainly different for most of the time now is these animals had the most glorious life.

Charlie:
Because they were in the wild.

Paul:
Yeah, they were wild and they lived in a beautiful part of the world. And it was a quick death with a gun and they kept me alive.

Charlie:
Yeah, fair enough. At what point did you feel like you wanted to take it to the next level with your cooking and have it part of your... Well, was it a hobby before a profession? I assume?

Paul:
I always had an interest in it because of course my mum is a great cook and she was a cook for the estate, if you like. So she would cook all these dinners. And so we ate incredibly well. And Dad used to grow all the vegetables in our back garden. We had pretty much every vegetable you can think of, all seasonal. So, you know, it was nothing out of season. We never ate lettuce in the winter. It was it was swede, potatoes or that kind of thing, leeks. And yeah, from a very early age, I would be in the kitchen with mom while she was preparing all this food and all these dishes. And she she used to make the most fabulous meringues, which has always stuck with me. And as you know, you know, pavlovas and everything are still a big part of our life, really. But yeah, I was very fortunate and very interested in it. Yeah, I used to love it.

Charlie:
And can we just talk about the fact that your mother was in the kitchens of, as you said, a stately home or a great English country house? Is that right?

Paul:
Yeah, Millichope Park.

Charlie:
Because we just did a mini-series explaining that era and how popular it was and and how it was one of the biggest industries and how so many people were involved in the upkeep of these houses. So she was one of those people.

Paul:
That's right, yes.

Charlie:
In the thick of it.

Paul:
Yeah. Yeah. From a very early age, from the age of 14, she went into what we call... Actually no, I think she was 12. Yeah, she was 12. She went into service which was working in these houses. [Wow.] And at 14 she was sent to Bedfordshire [right], to a rectory actually, with a vicar in his family. And she actually there she used to look after their children and also cook for the house as well at 14 years of age. And also, interestingly, and this upsets me, even now, she was never allowed to eat with the family, she had to eat all her meals in a separate room in what they used to call the scullery on her own.

Charlie:
Yes, the scullery, the scullery, I thought was the lower down kitchen that had sort of almost wet floor.

Paul:
That's right, yes. Yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. So she had to eat in the scullery?

Paul:
And she was 14 and a long, long way from home. I mean, yeah, it was Bedfordshire and you know this is obviously pre mobile, email, pre anything. Really. [Yeah.] And she used to send her wages home to her mum and dad as well so...

Charlie:
Wow. And then how long was she there? And then she came back to the home that you mentioned earlier.

Paul:
Well I think she was there for a couple of years. She'll tell you she was desperately homesick. Anyway, she came home and then she worked for the Berry family that... They own the Millichope estate, still do. And my mother worked in their, in their house.

Charlie:
Right. And did you live with your mum in that house?

Paul:
Not that one. But when Lindsay came of age, as you did, and he was about 25, he married and then he moved into the the big house, the estate house and I mean this is where we were so fortunate because in between this huge house was a big bell tower. They knocked down the bell tower and that wing became our home. So it was a three storey Georgian masterpiece, actually. And yeah, it was a very cherished childhood.

Charlie:
Right. So your mother was working in the kitchen, but you felt like you were almost living in this ridiculously nice place. I remember you said something that you were a little bit embarrassed about getting off the bus stop in school.

Paul:
Yeah, I mean, I went to the local secondary school in Ludlow, which was, you know, 11 or 12 miles away. So a lot of people, a lot of my friends didn't know where I lived or anything like that. And it was only when I was playing in the basketball teams or if we had swimming competitions and we were being dropped off home in the minibus and I would beg our teacher to drop me at the bottom of the drive because I was embarrassed for anyone to see where I lived because it was so grand. And I knew actually the circumstances of a lot of my mates back then. Some of them only had their mum, the dad had left or whatever. They lived, you know, a very simple frugal life actually. Anyway, they badgered the... Mr. Alcock to take me up to the house, and so we would go up the drive, which was probably a couple of mile long, and pheasants of course, would be flying around and walking across the drive. The one lad at the back of the- I think his name is Stephen Pardo, back at the minibuses was shouting 'Oh, bloody hell, look at this. Benson's got peacocks running around his house!' It's a blessing. I didn't know the difference between peacocks and pheasants, but yeah, and of course, when we get- when we got up to the top of the house, which which is very, very grand, there was this awful silence. You know, you could feel it, really, that, gosh, look where he lives and look what we've got, kind of thing.

Charlie:
Oh right. It suddenly got awkward.

Paul:
Yeah. And I was always very, very embarrassed by it. Weird, isn't it?

Charlie:
Yeah. And they knew...

Paul:
We weren't wealthy at all.

Charlie:
And I. I was going to say. And they knew that you weren't the owners.

Paul:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. Strange. So that's. That's how you started to be introduced to cooking, right from an early age. And when did you start to become a professional chef?

Paul:
Well, when I was 15, 14, 15, actually, I, I got a job with my then girlfriend's parents' pub.

Charlie:
Sorry, Sue.

Paul:
And she's not called Sorry, Sue. It was Trudy.

Charlie:
Trudy? [Trudy, yeah]. Your mother's dog is called Trudy.

Paul:
That's right. Yes. It's all getting a bit awkward now, isn't it? That's why she called it her as well. Don't tell Sorry Sue. Sorry, Sue.

Charlie:
As you were.

Paul:
They had this pub called Bennetts End on the side of the Clee Hill. Tiny little pub, really, but had quite a big extension with a restaurant in it. This pub was hugely popular. The food was fantastic there and I used to wash up in the kitchens on a Saturday night. And of course, while you're in the kitchens and washing up, you can see everything that's going on around you. And I just loved all the kind of excitement really, and the pressure that was building up as the evenings used to go on for service. And it was kind of an adrenaline. You could say it was an adrenaline rush for the for the staff that were cooking, etc.. Not so much for me washing up, but yeah, I then started to get more involved in what was going on in the kitchen. I started off doing the desserts and Belinda, who was the landlady, Trudy's mother. She actually immediately noticed that I had a flair for it. I mean, it was a simple thing. We used to do things like banana splits and Knickerbocker Glory. This is going back in the day when the- these were the foods that people used to, you know...

Charlie:
Can you describe a Knickerbocker? A Knickerbocker.

Paul:
Knickerbocker.

Charlie:
Knickerbora... Oh, gosh. Knickerbocker Glory. Yes.

Paul:
Yeah. So it's in a long coupe glass. So a tall, tall glass. And then you would have your chocolate ice cream, raspberry ice cream, vanilla ice cream, raspberry sauce, nuts, and then just loads of cream all over the top. And then you'd flake it over with more nuts, etc..

Charlie:
Right. And did you do that sort of salt man sprinkle from the elbow like that like the meme?

Paul:
I've never done that. That's one thing that really irritates me when I see these... Don't get me wrong, brilliant chefs, but I don't like. Like the drama that they do.

Charlie:
Yeah, I can imagine. That was the moment that somebody saw the talent within you. [Yeah] And then you...

Paul:
It kind of all of accelerated at a rate of knots then really. I mean, most when I was first there, say, I was washing up, then I would help in the kitchen, but I did a lot of bar work as well. And actually, I think everyone in life should do a bit of bar work. So you get to meet what people are like, what they can be like. It is quite an eye opener at times.

Charlie:
Well, yeah, you were, you were saying how the place that you work at now there's a cafe and you feel like you've seen some teenagers who are shy and, you know, not.

Paul:
Oh yeah, it absolutely transforms them. All my children have done work customer facing, you know, cafes or bar work, and I really think it's a bit of a life lesson really.

Charlie:
And they're all very confident individuals, aren't they?

Paul:
Yes, they are. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it definitely helps. And I've had people work for me that have been painfully shy, you know, almost in tears when I've suggested that they come out of the washing up and go on to the front and I've actually made them do it. And to see them flourish was just amazing actually. Yeah. In confidence, etcetera.

Charlie:
Yeah. And that probably relates to the listeners with speaking confidence. You know, when you're learning a new language, it's hard to feel comfortable making mistakes and, and sort of trying to speak to a stranger and, you know, creating conversation. [Yeah, absolutely]. So that confidence could transfer. So guys, get yourselves into a bar or a cafe and start working, maybe even an English cafe. That would be good.

Paul:
Yeah. I can give them a job.

Charlie:
Yeah. There we go. Come over to Paul's way. Let's go to the escalation from doing desserts to then you were learning how to be a professional chef. And. And where did that take you? Did you stay in?

Paul:
No. No, not at all. So I'd always cooked, always cooked at home, always been interested in it. So I was at the Bennetts End cooking there doing the bar work, you know, just a country pub. But as I say, it was hugely successful and very, very busy. And I knew I wanted more, knew I wanted to work in a big environment. So I actually just sat down one day and wrote to all the big hotel chains at the time. So there's Britannia Hotels, Hilton, the Grosvenor, just on the off chance of getting a job, really. And then a couple of weeks later, I had a letter from the Hilton at Stratford upon Avon asking me to go for an interview. So I went along there and saw Mr. Warburton, never forgotten him. Lovely man. Had a good interview with him. And really, I never thought much more about it. But then roll on another two weeks and I had an offer letter to go and work at the Hilton on Park Lane.

Charlie:
Okay.

Paul:
And off I went. I literally packed my case, got on the train and went to London.

Charlie:
How big was your case?

Paul:
Not very big. We didn't have much in those days.

Charlie:
You'd come from a big house.

Paul:
Yeah, but no, it was a huge step, actually, when I look back. But.

Charlie:
And again, no instant communication with family and friends then.

Paul:
I had no idea where I was sleeping that night or anything, it was Hilton accommodation in Earl's Court.

Charlie:
Well, I mean, that's not exactly a sob story to go 'I had no idea where I'm sleeping...' I'm sleeping in the Hilton.

Paul:
Well, no, we weren't actually in the Hilton. We were in their accommodations. They had... They had houses in Earl's Court.

Charlie:
Okay.

Paul:
Where you could stay. And actually, they were pretty grim.

Charlie:
Right. So you rock up there with your suitcase.

Paul:
Yeah. And report to work and off I went. So I was thrown into these huge kitchens, I mean, because obviously they did lots of banqueting there. I mean, the Hilton back then probably had five or six different kitchens on different levels of the hotel, each serving different restaurants on different levels of a hotel. It was high, high, high paced, very hot, very angry. It was completely different to how it's portrayed now. It was a completely different world. It was, you know, you were screamed at and shouted at. A lot of people were bullied in there. And that's how kitchens of that nature were back in those days. I mean, you know.

Charlie:
Yeah. I mean, Gordon Ramsay encourages that stereotype. I tend to think kitchens are stressful. I don't know much about them, but I feel like...

Paul:
Well, I think now well, I know now that it's completely sort of turned around. You know, a lot of chefs play classical music and no-one talks, you know, and it's all very calm, very relaxed.

Charlie:
Well, there's that phrase, isn't there? If you can't handle the heat, step out of the kitchen.

Paul:
Yeah, if you can't- if you can't stick the heat, get out the kitchen.

Charlie:
Yeah. Okay. So you were in a stressful environment cooking for guests of the Hilton. [Yeah]. And what kind of food were you preparing?

Paul:
It was all pretty standard stuff because we were late seventies, early eighties now.

Charlie:
But we want to know what that standard stuff is, because as an outsider...

Paul:
Yeah. So it would be a lot of roast meat.

Charlie:
Roast meat.

Paul:
I mean, beef, obviously, quite a bit of fresh fish there, which I wasn't actually used to from where I was. I was- it was predominantly meat what I was brought up with. [Right]. Apart from fish fingers. But it was all... There was a great chef, Robert Carrier, who, I kind of think he was one of the, one of the first of the celebrity chefs, along with someone called Fanny Cradock, who was also very entertaining but not necessarily great with her food, etc.. So I think that that was the kind of stuff that people were expecting. I mean, we did the traditional British food, particularly in the... I think it was the one restaurant was called the London Tavern. So that was basically grills, really lots of grilled meats. Mixed grills are always a big thing. So a mixed grill was a piece of steak, sausage, gammon, liver, kidney, fried egg, chips, etc.. So it was a big plateful. It wasn't...

Charlie:
Calorific.

Paul:
It wasn't very elegant, I'd say, really.

Charlie:
Okay. When did you start to notice people paying attention to the aesthetics of a dish?

Paul:
I think it all started to change in probably- Yeah. The eighties, I think is when it started. It's kind of when all the celebrity chefs started to be on the TV. I think the TV was a big turning point because again, from my background, we had no idea of what food they were eating in London. And in fact, the only pasta I'd ever come across was a macaroni cheese and- And we loved it. But I never knew that macaroni cheese had pasta in or what pasta was. It was just the dish.

Charlie:
But didn't you make mac and cheese as a young... You were involved in the kitchen quite a lot.

Paul:
No, I never did. No, I don't ever remember doing that. No, I mean, Italian food, I mean pasta, etc. was all alien to us then.

Charlie:
And then in the eighties, Italian food started coming in.

Paul:
Yes. Well, down in London, obviously, because it's so diverse down there. I mean, the Italian... There was always Italian restaurants, etc. there, but kind of wasn't out to everybody, really.

Charlie:
And what would the hierarchy or the natural progression be of a chef? You come in as...

Paul:
Coming as a commis. [Cobby] Yeah, Commis chef.

Charlie:
Oh, a Commis.

Paul:
Yeah. C O double M I S.

Charlie:
Okay.

Paul:
And then you had progress... That was that's basically a basic thing. You couldn't really do much cooking. It'd be very standard washing vegetables and that kind of thing. Learning the trade, really. Right, Right from the onset.

Charlie:
And that's where you started. [Yeah.] Right.

Paul:
And then you would progress then on to a Sous chef, which would be the next level up. Then you be allowed to be helping the chef or the assistant chef.

Charlie:
By doing what? Like, actually...

Paul:
Well you'd be able to make a sauce, [Okay] or you'd be able to make the custard or you'd be able to, you may even be able to cook the potatoes, you know, It's all...

Charlie:
Okay. And how long does it take from being a commis to a sous chef?

Paul:
All depends on your ability and flair.

Charlie:
And how...?

Paul:
I've just raced through it.

Charlie:
Sure. They saw the flair in the man.

Paul:
I never got to- to a head chef or anything like that. Yeah, I mean, it was.

Charlie:
So sous chef then.

Paul:
So you go from sous chef, then it would be, well head chef. Oh, Chef de partie. Sorry. Yeah. Been a long time. Chef de partie would be the next rung. And then. And then it would be a head chef who would have total control over the whole kitchen.

Charlie:
Okay. And you also have the pot washer as well in the kitchen.

Paul:
Pot washers. Yeah, [but they...] the most important job.

Charlie:
Yeah. And Stacy always tells me whenever I'm being slow in the kitchen cleaning up, she says my father would always come into the kitchen and show everybody up by, you know, if the pot washer was slow, he'd say, 'give it here'. And he'd roll up his sleeves as the general manager of the business. And you do it three times as quickly as...

Paul:
I still do that.

Charlie:
Oh, really?

Paul:
The one thing I have to teach people now is how to sweep a floor.

Charlie:
Oh.

Paul:
Yeah. Seriously, the youngsters that come in at 18, 19, 20 years of age have never picked up a broom and have never swept a floor. And if you've never, if you've never actually swept a floor, it's quite interesting to see how some people do it, because me...

Charlie:
Can you describe how they try?

Paul:
Well, they're cack-handed. So, you know, they... Body is all over the place and it's one handed and they don't understand that the bristles are pushing the food or the whatever's on the [pulling] floor away from you. [Oh, yeah]. They just don't get it right and they miss half of it. And of course, it drives me nuts. So I very often just throw all my paperwork down and say, Do you know how to sweep a floor? No, no. And then I say, I said, Right, I'm going to show you this and you will never forget this for the rest of your life. And then they get it and it's fine. It's the same story with mopping the floor as well. [Right] People don't know how to mop a floor because, again, they've never done it. So they will literally wade through water all over a floor. And I walk in, I say, this is dangerous. You can't just ignore it and your feet are going to get wet. You need to clean it up. [Yeah]. And they don't know how to operate a mop.

Charlie:
There we go. I'm wondering how you would judge my mop sweeping technique. We've been doing it recently because one of the dogs that we're looking after wees every night, So I mop that up. So I use the bucket, you know, get it wet, put it through that drainer, give it a twist.

Yeah. Dry your mop off.

Charlie:
Dry your mop off guys.

Paul:
That's it, Yeah.

Charlie:
And then do a little circular motion around the way. Yeah. Rinse and repeat. [Yeah] Yeah?

Paul:
Yeah. In the kitchens we always used to use, or still do, is we throw down tea towels then. Dry tea towels.

Charlie:
I remember that because...!

Paul:
Throw them onto the floor and then get your broom, turn your broom up the other side and you dry off the floor completely.

Charlie:
Oh this is good to know.

Paul:
And then that stops it being slippy because that's, you know, it's dangerous if you've got a wet, slippery floor. Obviously, in the kitchen.

Charlie:
Top tip. There we go. Throw down some tea towels.

Paul:
Yeah. And learn how to sweep a floor.

Charlie:
Yeah. Okay. So aside from cleaning, the meats, you mentioned the Sunday roast. Was that a big thing in the Hilton?

Paul:
Yes. Yeah, in the grill. Yeah. I mean, we used to get a lot of. Well, yeah, there was a lot of Americans. And also the Arabs used to come over because it was the oil boom. The hotel was always full with those. Yeah. And I guess that's when things started to change really, particularly with the Arabs coming over. You know, we had to cater for those as well. So new dishes would be introduced, but it was predominantly the the roast meats, steak's always been a top of the pile really. [Right]. And still is, you know, a lot of the time.

Charlie:
And are the Arabs hard to please? Were they, in the Hilton then?

Paul:
Yeah I think it was it was an interesting thing really, because they had- they were phenomenally wealthy because of the money they were making off the oil, but they had no understanding of the value of that money, particularly in the Hilton. I wouldn't say they were very demanding, but they were quite I suppose they were quite rude, really. Well, they were not quite, you know, they they weren't very pleasant to us, but they would tip very, very well.

Charlie:
So you put up with that.

Paul:
So we would take it every time.

Charlie:
Fair enough. So you were at the Hilton for how long?

Paul:
Two and a half years.

Charlie:
Two and a half years. And then, was that because..., you left because you couldn't handle the heat in the kitchen?

Paul:
I couldn't handle London. Well, I could.

Charlie:
Was it not fun for you at that age?

Paul:
I absolutely loved it. Yeah.

Charlie:
What was it like? Outside of the kitchen.

Paul:
We would work very, very long hours. And in those days, of course, in the catering trade, it was always split, what we call split shifts. So you would do breakfast and lunch, have a couple of hours off in the afternoon, and then you would work the evening shift as well. And that was pretty much the case for everywhere, really. Back in those days, pubs would close in the afternoon. Long hard days and we would finish work probably midnight and then we would go out clubbing if we had the energy and... Yeah.

Charlie:
So straight to the club from the kitchen. Not like a pub or a bar or anything.

Paul:
No, there used to be a fantastic little jazz club right behind the Hilton, which we had free membership to. So we all used to just pile in there really, and it would be full of great Motown superstars, all the soul singers of the day. It was a club that they all used to frequent, and it's a really small, little intimate club. But I had some great fun in there.

Charlie:
I can imagine. So does the industry encourage a lot of consuming of alcohol, and we can get to food as well.

Paul:
But yeah, alcohol was always a big thing and in the latter years drugs was was obviously prevalent in there as well.

Charlie:
Right. Okay. Do you think it still is?

Paul:
Oh definitely, yeah. Yeah.

Charlie:
To maintain stamina throughout the day?

Paul:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Right. And what about the... Because it's funny how some professions like you look at a doctor and sometimes they're not in the best shape physically or you look at, you know, sometimes personal trainers, you're like, hang on, what's going on here? But with chefs, you're around food all the time. So there's an understanding that it might be tempting to have a little nibble constantly. So you're grazing all the time, but then again, you understand what's in the food. So you've got a better relationship and knowledge of what you're eating. So what does that equal, would you say, for the general industry? Are people healthy eaters or are they very unhealthy and they just eat what they definitely healthy?

Paul:
I think they're definitely healthier now. They weren't back in the day. I mean, we would eat any old rubbish, to be honest. It was, you know, running around and just grabbing whatever you could really to keep yourself going. [Yeah] But you had to be careful because you could be you couldn't be caught doing it. You'd be in serious trouble, so...

Charlie:
But everyone did it, and that's how they kept going throughout the day.

Paul:
You very seldom had a proper sit down and have a lunch break or anything. In fact, I don't ever remember doing that.

Charlie:
So a couple of years in in the Hilton. And then you left London?

Paul:
I left London, yeah. I loved London and I still do. But I was partying too hard and it was time for me to retire back to the shire. So that's what I did.

Charlie:
Bilbo Baggins comes back home.

Paul:
Yeah. So I then went back to work for Belinda again, who I worked with at Bennetts End, and she'd sold her business and bought another pub and so I was managing that pub called the Fighting Cocks in Stottesdon Little Village Pub again.

Charlie:
Were you not head chef there?

Paul:
No, I was kind of general manager really because she, she- she had another job selling fur coats in Rackhams and Shrewsbury. So I used to manage it, but I did a lot of cooking there as well.

Charlie:
Did you model the coats as well?

Paul:
Yes, I did. Yes, I still do. Shall I go and get one?

Charlie:
Did you actually get any free coats from her? [No] Didn't want any. Okay, so...

Paul:
While we're talking about fur coats, I'll just mention about when I was at the Hilton, we used to have the high class prostitutes used to come in with...

Charlie:
Oh, wow.

Paul:
And they would be wearing a fur coat and nothing else.

Charlie:
Oh, yeah. How would you know?

Paul:
Well, we just knew. But I was, because I was so naive and from such a rural area, and, you know, it's my first experience of city life, etc.. You know, I really struggled with it because these women were absolutely stunning. They were beautiful. They really were. They were dressed immaculate. And. Yeah. And my manager at the time, you know, they would say, you know, we can't serve them. And I'd be gobsmacked. And I'd say 'Well, why?' and he's say 'they're prostitutes'.

Charlie:
Yeah, but you, you say they were dressed immaculately but it was just a coat right.

Paul:
Yeah. But there was we had all sorts of prostitutes in there but they were always stunning. High class prostitutes. Yeah. They must have made an absolute fortune.

Charlie:
Yeah. Did you wish you were one?

Paul:
What? A prostitute? Well, I was! That's in the next one.

Charlie:
That's after Head Chef. Yeah. Only joking, guys. Okay, You went back home. You managed a pub, did you say?

Paul:
Yeah. Yeah. So traditional village pub and, yeah, we did traditional food for pubs then. So now where are we? Mid eighties, early eighties, mid eighties. So the things we'd have on the menu, what everybody wanted would be steak again, always steak, grills would be on there, scampi and chips was always very popular, as was fish and chips. And then that's when the more continental foods I suppose started coming in. So I remember we used to do lasagnes, macaroni cheese. Yeah. What do you call it now, Mac And.

Charlie:
Well, it's a nickname. Yeah. Mac and cheese. [Mac and cheese] Americans say that.

Paul:
So. Yeah, a few pasta dishes like that. Yeah. Just trying to remember what else. I mean, it was a classic things. We always had prawn cocktails for your first course.

Charlie:
That's quite English, isn't it?

Paul:
It's a classic sixties kind of dish which has remained with us. And I think a lot of people are a bit snobby about the food back then, but actually they were good things. You know, a prawn cocktail made well is great, as is a black forest gateaux, that was everywhere and people sort of scorn at it now. But a good Black Forest gateau was delicious.

Charlie:
Yeah, I suppose that's the way things go, isn't it? If it gets too mainstream, there's lots of bad versions of it and then it gets a bad name for itself. But there is a good version. And it's good. [Yeah]. Okay. Did the pub scene. But now you're not a chef anymore.

Paul:
No, I. I went into school catering actually, after that and I was at a prep school, boarding prep school for ten years as a catering manager there. And we had a great time there. Absolutely loved it. So I used to do cooking with the children there. It wasn't just cooking food for the kids. It was entertaining for the Christmas balls and speech days. We used to do weddings, etc. there as well. So it was it was full on. Learnt quite a lot from there actually. So yeah, I had some great times there.

Charlie:
And then you decided to leave the kitchen altogether and become a manager in different sorts. We have come to the end of part one. So feel free to take a break from your listening practice, but if you're happy to keep going, then we're now moving on to part two of this episode. Thanks so much for being a premium or Academy member and enjoy the rest of the show.

Paul:
Well, no, it's all kind of evolved, really. We left Moore Park, went to another prep school, and then we self employed business in a golf [a golf club, yeah!]. The golf club in Kington. So that, again, that was a complete different environment.

Charlie:
So that was still hospitality, a lot of the time.

Paul:
Still hospitality. I was doing the food, so I was doing front of house. So we were there for a couple of years till foot and mouth hit the country and that closed our business down for three months because all the golf course is on National Trust land, so we weren't allowed to open. And it was during that time where Stephen Churcher, who owns Burford House, phoned me up there and said, Would I be interested in doing the catering over at Burford? Went there, liked what I saw, so I did the catering in the restaurant and we did weddings and events, etc. probably for about five or six years I was doing that, but then gradually I was being pulled into other parts of the business, its garden centre business, and that kind of steered me away from the kitchen then and now I well, I've had a bout of being regional manager, but now I just am general manager of the whole garden centre. Still very interested in the food there.

Charlie:
But you're quite interested in plants now I've noticed.

Paul:
That's right, yeah. I mean I love gardening, I love plants. It's a whole new world, really, yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. You mentioned Burford House, and that's where Stacey and I are getting married. You've agreed for me to marry your daughter. Was that a hard decision?

Paul:
It was really difficult. It was the most hardest decision of my life, and I'm still not sure if I've done the right thing.

Charlie:
But yeah, we're very pleased to be able to use Burford House and it's going to be hopefully a magical day if it actually goes ahead, thanks to Paul.

Paul:
Why will it not go ahead?

Charlie:
Well, you just said you might might just might suddenly feel like it shouldn't. So yeah, we're excited. And Burford House again is a great English country house. It's a Georgian...

Paul:
That's right, a Georgian house. Yes. A lot of history there. Yes. So it's had a chequered history. It's it's been all sorts over the years. A lot of work has been done to it and it's it's changed the insides, etc..

Charlie:
Okay, well, there we go. So that was a 30 minute round up more or less of your life in many ways. A few things cut out, I assume. Just a few stories here and there.

Paul:
Quite a lot, actually.

Charlie:
But we're going to do a quick segment on British eating habit facts. Stacey prepared this for us. [Okay] We've got three questions to get through in this section. What percentage of the UK still eat a Sunday roast together as a family, would you say? Do you as a family eat a Sunday roast? [Yes.] Together? [Yes]. And when you say yes, do you mean just you and Sue, because the children have fled the nest?

Paul:
Sue and I. And yeah, we would invite them and we would encourage them to join us whenever they can as well. And then we would all be together for that.

Charlie:
Every Sunday, you invite...

Paul:
Not every Sunday. No, no.

Charlie:
Okay. But now and again. [Yeah] But on Sunday, are you always eating that kind of meat on your own, with Sue?

Paul:
Yeah, we do, Yeah. We normally have a traditional Sunday roast on a Sunday evening and then...

Charlie:
Even in the summer?

Paul:
No, I was going to say in the summer we wouldn't, unless the weather is a bit chilly.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Paul:
In the summer we try to get outside and eat as much as we can. Barbecue, pizza, pizza oven. I cook everything in the pizza oven.

Charlie:
Fair enough.

Paul:
That and an air fryer. It's a whole new world.

Charlie:
It is. Not an Italian pizza oven, I suppose. That's quite old for them, right? A pizza oven?

Paul:
Well, yes, but it's- I don't just use it for pizza. I cook sorts of things in it.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what percentage would you say...?

Paul:
Well I don't think it's going to be very high at all. I'm probably going to go 20%.

Charlie:
20%? What would you guess when you were 20, 30 years old, what would you guess the percentage was then? I don't have that fact.

Paul:
I think it would probably be 60%.

Charlie:
Okay. So you think it's dropped 40%?

Paul:
Definitely. Yeah.

Charlie:
Right. Well, it's at 30%, according to Stacy's findings. But yeah, I can imagine back then it would have been 60, 70%.

Paul:
I mean, the thing is, a roast takes time and people just don't have the time now, do they?

Charlie:
No. And something that I also feel I've noticed is that the structure of the rooms in a British home would often have, if you have the space, often have a separate dining room that's quite formal and people tend to not use that in the week. You'd have a table near the kitchen that you'd use in the week and then on the Sunday or like a special day, you'd go into that room. Do you feel like you noticed that in some houses as well?

Paul:
Oh, definitely, yes.

Charlie:
Whereas now everything's more open plan. People like a bigger kitchen with an island and a like a sofa. So it doesn't really encourage that. And also the space, it's hard to...

Paul:
Yeah, that's definitely changed.

Charlie:
So maybe the formality of a Sunday roast has gone out the window.

Paul:
Yes [a little bit]. Well, I question whether they would even use a dining room on the- for their Sunday lunches. You know, probably eat it in the kitchen or something.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Paul:
But, yeah, houses have changed considerably, haven't they? But they did. There is an argument to say that- Well, it's not an argument. I think it's pretty much a fact. I was talking to someone at a conference that we had Cajun. I can't remember the guy's name, but he's saying that they're already designing houses that don't actually have a kitchen because everybody will be eating out. [Yeah]. No one will be cooking. So there's no need for a kitchen.

Charlie:
That's crazy, isn't it?

Paul:
It is for me.

Charlie:
Yeah for you, yeah.

Paul:
It's just mind boggling.

Charlie:
How many takeaways would you have in a month?

Paul:
Oh, gosh. One if that.

Charlie:
If that.

Paul:
Yeah. Yeah. Very, very rarely have a takeaway.

Charlie:
I know it's not England, but when we were living in Sydney for the first couple of months, we lived in a shared lodge kind of community and there was 40 people to one kitchen. And Stacey and I were the only ones in there. Wow. Maybe one other person would come in. But yeah. So everyone else is just getting takeaway.

Paul:
Gosh.

Charlie:
Okay, so next question. What percentage of the UK still eats meat in their diet? So basically, how many plant based food consumers are there now? Kind of.

Paul:
I think I'm probably going to say 75% are still eating meat.

Charlie:
75%. How much would you bet on that? How confident are you? You could be 5% more or less. How much money would you put on the table for that?

Paul:
20 quid.

Charlie:
Twenty quid? Yeah. Should we do it?

Paul:
Well, you've got the answer.

Charlie:
That's true. Yeah. I won't make you pay £20. It's 86%. Right. So it's still quite high. [Yeah.] I wonder- What would you guess is the most veggie slash vegan country in the world? I might Google that.

Paul:
Well, I think it's going to be Asian just because they don't eat a lot of meat.

Charlie:
They eat a lot of fish, though. I would categorise fish in the-.

Paul:
Yeah. Okay.

Charlie:
Non veggie...

Paul:
So what was the question again?

Charlie:
Which country do you think has the the lowest consumption of meat and veg. Sorry, meat and fish. So what's the most veggie vegan friendly?

Paul:
Okay, I'm going to. No, I was going to say Japan, but they like their beef, don't they, and...

Charlie:
Yeah, they like beef and they like salmon.

Paul:
And fish, obviously.

Charlie:
And sushi, in their sushi.

Paul:
I kind of tempted to say India because there's quite a lot of.

Charlie:
Ding a ling a ling. [Yeah]. You got it.

Paul:
Okay. Yeah. A lot of vegetarian. Well, yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. Vegetarian vegetarianism in the in the regions around India.

Paul:
Yes.

Charlie:
There we go. Okay. So 86% in the UK still eat meat. And the last one in this segment, what percentage of the UK has their five fruit and veg a day? Now let's discuss that. What is- I mean, why do you think that's a thing? Five fruit and veg a day.

Paul:
That's a government thing again, isn't it? Trying to get us all slim.

Charlie:
Yeah. Getting us slim.

Paul:
And healthy to help...

Charlie:
NHS.

Paul:
Nhs. Yeah, but...

Charlie:
Do you think there was much behind it? You know, six fruit and veg, four fruit and veg, like...

Paul:
I'm sure they did the science. [Yeah?] Yeah. I'm sure they would have done. Yes. Yeah. I think that you know, someone would have been paid a phenomenal amount of money to say 'five is the number'. But it's all about like I said earlier isn't it. It's, you know, variety and...

Charlie:
Variety is the spice of life. Yeah. Did you have your five fruit and veg as you were growing up?

Paul:
Oh, definitely, without even thinking about it. Yeah, absolutely.

Charlie:
But you didn't think 'I need to have my five'.

Paul:
No, no, no. It was just there. That was what we ate. [Yeah] And some. I mean, we probably I would say we probably had double that.

Charlie:
Ten?

Paul:
Yeah, easily. You know, we would have fruit all the time and there would be... We always had three or four veg because they were out the garden.

Charlie:
Right. I'm going to ask you how many fruit and veg do you think you have these days because I obviously know you and have been around you for the last decade. For the last decade! [I know!] I've been watching your diet.

Paul:
It seems more than that.

Charlie:
Time fl... Oh, no. Yeah. The phrase there, guys, was time flies when you're having fun. But yes, the irony there is that he's suggesting that it's gone slowly. So yeah. Do you think you have five fruit and veg a day now?

Paul:
Easily.

Charlie:
Really? That doesn't- That's not coffee. Coffee doesn't include fruit and veg.

Paul:
No, I don't have any of that. No, I do. Seriously, I do. [Yeah?] Yeah. Easily. Yeah.

Charlie:
What you have for breakfast?

Paul:
This morning I had two boiled eggs and a banana.

Charlie:
Okay, that's one. We're already halfway through the day, almost. [Yeah]. So you've only had one. Are you going to scoff four?

Paul:
Tonight we've got a vegan dinner, so there'll be about 5000 different vegetables for that because we can't eat anything else. So that's my month's done already in a day, So...

Charlie:
Okay, so what percentage of the UK has their five fruit and veg a day? What do you think?

Paul:
I don't think very high. I'm going to say 50%.

Charlie:
Very close. You could have you could have got your money back. 54%. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to make of that. 54%. That's pretty middle ground.

Paul:
Well, it's failed, hasn't it, really?

Charlie:
Yes, I suppose. Yeah. Pie and chips instead. [Yeah]. Do you think we're quite a beige...

Paul:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. For the people who are on lower income etc. It does perplex me that, that they... It's not cheap. That's what perplexes me. So fish and chips from a takeaway is quite a lot of money.

Charlie:
It's not cheap especially in the touristy areas.

Paul:
Exactly Yeah yeah. You know, and you could... Again you have to know how to cook though I was going to say, you know you can cook so much for quite a little amount of money easily in my opinion, but you have to have the knowledge and unfortunately people just don't have the knowledge and also they don't have the time like they used to.

Charlie:
Yeah, Stacey sometimes cooks something really nice and she says, 'do you know how much that was'? And she's like - a soup, for example - She was like, that was 30p Like, [exactly, yeah] in bulk, obviously. But yeah, that's crazy that, you know, a soup in the supermarket, plastic container, that's £5 sometimes. Yeah. The knowledge. So will you be, if we were blessed with children of our own, will you be making sure that they know how to cook before they can stand?

Paul:
I'd like to think so, yes.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Paul:
Yeah, definitely get them interested in it.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Paul:
I think that is crucial from an early age and to get them messy with it as well. That's what I love to see. Kim put up a photograph of Arthur, he's our youngest grandchild, he's seven months just having his lunch and he's absolutely covered in pasta and sauce all over his face and up his arms and his hands. And that's exactly how it should be. It's not just about eating the food. It's the texture in your hands and how it feels on your skin, because it's a huge part of your life.

Charlie:
Is this an excuse as to how you eat in the - at the dinner table?

Paul:
That's right, yes.

Charlie:
Sue is constantly telling 'You got a bit...'

Paul:
Mopping me up,yeah.

Charlie:
No. Okay. So you feel like you've got to experience the food in all the senses possible...

Paul:
Yeah, definitely. From an early age. Yeah.

Charlie:
to really connect with it. Yeah. Mhm. Okay. Yeah. I don't feel like I connected with it and the result was not...

Paul:
We can tell.

Charlie:
Yeah. So when I was travelling I've said this before, but when I was travelling, an Italian came over to our group and there were a couple of Italians there and he wanted the Italian to taste the food that he had made. And then he was very rude to me and said, No, you wouldn't get it, you wouldn't understand how good this is, kind of thing.

Paul:
Did you punch him?

Charlie:
I didn't because I was young and scared, but to be honest, I probably wouldn't have appreciated how good it is. But does that annoy you that the stereotype of a British person, considering how much you've invested your time and energy into...?

Paul:
Yeah, I think we've always had a bad press the UK for their food. I think there was probably a time when that was the case. Greasy fish and chips and bangers and mash, you know, were our staples and things like shepherd's pie, steak and kidney pie. It's all quite stodgy and heavy. But actually, again, if it's made well with great ingredients, they are great dishes and, you know, all said and done, they have they are still around now after, you know, hundreds of years probably. Again people don't probably make them anymore. They take- Making a steak and kidney pie or shepherd's pie takes time. [Yes]. It's a great dish though, so...

Charlie:
So the advice there would be just be careful of where you eat, but don't worry about going for the obvious favourites of British dishes. Just choose the right restaurant and enjoy the...

Paul:
Yeah. And you'll find now, I think that all those classic British dishes are in most places now. You know, there was a time when they were they took them all off and it was all continental food and I mean you would never get a shepherd's pie on a- in a nice restaurant, whereas I think you probably would now.

Charlie:
Yeah. It's come back hasn't it? Yeah.

Paul:
And they'll charge you a fortune for it too as well. And you can actually make it for about $0.55 but there we go.

Charlie:
We have come to the end of part two now. So again, feel free to pause the episode to take a break from your listening practice and come back to the last part when you're ready.

Charlie:
All right. So moving on to part three now. Enjoy. Nice. Okay, we've got a quick fire round to end things. So we've got describe or explain the following British dishes, please. Yorkshire pudding. What is a Yorkshire pudding, Paul?

Paul:
So a Yorkshire pudding is... It's flour, eggs and milk and you just whisk all that up, put it into a very hot oven and then that will puff up, if you're good at it. It'll puff up and you would have that with your- traditionally with a roast beef.

Charlie:
And what shape is it?

Paul:
It could be any shape you want, but usually it's it's round but you can do it in a rectangular baking tin or you can do it individually in round muffin tins.

Charlie:
Yeah, that's the typical one that I associate with, the muffin size.

Paul:
Yeah. The muffin size one is what we probably all recognise, but that's not really the traditional one. Traditionally it would have been in the big pan. [Oh!] And it would be cut up.

Charlie:
Right. So would that be the sides only, only the sides around that big tray would have risen?

Paul:
No, no. The whole lot would.

Charlie:
The whole...?

Paul:
Yeah, yeah. It'll come round the sides more but the whole thing should puff up.

Charlie:
Okay. And then you chop it up. Right.

Paul:
And that was designed to fill you up. That was the whole point of them.

Charlie:
On its own?

Paul:
No, no. Well, yeah, interestingly, I think, I think it was in Yorkshire ironically, that they would eat that before their meal. Just the Yorkshire pudding.

Charlie:
And is that where Toad in the Hole came from as well? [Yeah]. They were like oh let's stick a sausage...

Paul:
A sausage in it. Yeah. But it was primarily to fill you up because meat was expensive. Still is, phenomenally so now, so...

Charlie:
Yes.

Paul:
So that was a Yorkshire pudding.

Charlie:
So is it similar to pancake batter?

Paul:
Exactly the same batter. Yeah.

Charlie:
Ah. So it's risen pancake.

Paul:
Yeah. The only difference is, is how it's cooked and what it's cooked in.

Charlie:
Yeah, right. Okay, so that's a Yorkshire pudding. Thank you. Spotted Dick. Why are you laughing?

Paul:
It's just the name, isn't it? A Spotted Dick.

Charlie:
Immature, man.

Paul:
Yeah. I'm not a great lover of spotted Dick, actually. Sue loves it, but...

Charlie:
Did Trudy?

Paul:
Trudy. Yeah, I think she did actually. She's have anything. So. Spotted dick. Quite tasty, really.

Charlie:
It's a pudding, but the flavours, majority flavours are what?

Paul:
Well, it would be fruit.

Fruit.

Fruit. Yeah. Yeah. Fruit would give it all-.

Charlie:
Fruit cake.

Paul:
-the flavour. Yes.

Charlie:
Yeah. Pigs in blankets.

Paul:
So that's a sausage. Normally a chipolata. So chipolata is one of the smallest sausages that you get, and then you would wrap streaky bacon around that sausage and then you would cook it wrapped up.

Charlie:
Yes. And when is it normally consumed?

Paul:
Normally have it with Christmas. With roast Turkey.

Charlie:
Yeah. Yeah. Eton mess.

Paul:
Yeah. We we always eat that here.

Charlie:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Sorry. Yes. Yeah.

Paul:
It's one of our go-tos. It's so easy to do. So it's just broken up meringues with whipped cream and then raspberries and you fold it all in together and put it into your glass or your bowl.

Charlie:
So it is a dessert.

Paul:
Very simple.

Charlie:
Yeah, a dessert. And it's - so it's a very sweet dessert, isn't it?

Paul:
Yeah. I think it was originally from Eton as well, wasn't it? The college there, yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. I think they used to have it after cricket?

Paul:
Yeah, probably. Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah.

Charlie:
Okay. Shepherd's pie. You've mentioned that before. What is it? What is shepherd's pie?

Paul:
So shepherd's pie is a savoury mince topped with mashed potato. It's luscious. Yeah. One of my favourites, actually. Yeah. I love shepherd's pie.

Charlie:
Oh, yeah. Let's go there. What are your favourites?

Paul:
Shepherd's pie. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, crikey. I get asked this so many times. I love-.

Charlie:
Too much pressure.

Paul:
I love game and yeah. And that's I'm convinced that's from my childhood memories. So pheasant is... I love pheasant.

Charlie:
Right, yeah. That must be from your childhood. [Yeah.] You were brought up on that. Cos for me, it's too gamey.

Paul:
Yeah. Yeah, I think I've never cooked you a pheasant, have I?

Charlie:
No. Maybe you should wow me.

Paul:
With chocolate sauce.

Charlie:
Oh, wow.

Paul:
Yeah, you barely taste the chocolate, but it gives it a real... So, yes, I love fish, actually, I love all all kinds of fish.

Charlie:
I can see why you can't be vegetarian.

Paul:
I do like steak, etc., but very rarely eat, eat steaks, to be honest. Love a bacon sandwich occasionally. But again, not. Not very often.

Charlie:
Yeah. Funny. I love your bacon sandwiches that you do when we come round for Christmas in the morning of Boxing Day or something. You'd give us heaps of bacon in the sandwich and it'd be really crunchy. Tasty. And then I go back to my home where my parents are cooking and my my dad said, Do you want a bacon sandwich? I hadn't had one from him in years and he gave me one and it just looked like two pieces of bread on top of each other. I opened it and there was one, one piece. One piece. And then you- You told me that you do like how many?

Paul:
Three or four slices in a bacon sandwich.

Charlie:
Maybe you were trying to be funny, you said. I thought you said seven or eight.

Paul:
No, no. That's overkill.

Charlie:
No, three or four. Okay, okay.

Paul:
Depends on what bacon you use. [Yes]. If you get the very thin cut bacon, then you need more of that. But essentially, it's crispy, though.

Charlie:
Yeah. Okay. Last. Last two. Bangers and mash. So what is bangers and mash?

Paul:
So that's mashed potato with sausages.

Charlie:
Right. So there we go.

Paul:
So, yeah, you just cook, cook your sausages and make a mash. So you peel and boil your potatoes. Add some butter and cream.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Paul:
And yeah, that's bangers and mash.

Charlie:
Even I can cook that. I remember that was my one of my first. I mean, obviously, I buy the sausages.

Paul:
It all sounds very simple, but to make it a great dish is, you know, the mash has to be great.

Charlie:
Yes. Yes.

Paul:
You've got to make sure you get all the lumps out, so there's no lumps. You've got to get the seasoning right. The consistency right.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Paul:
That's what makes a difference. That's what makes it great. And the same with your sausages. You want good sausages before you start. You don't want the cheapest you can buy. [True.] You want a good flavoursome sausage. And that just makes all the difference.

Charlie:
What does Cumberland mean when it's...

Paul:
Cumberland is an area in UK.

Charlie:
Okay, so it's just a sausage from Cumberland.

Paul:
Yeah, right. Ashley loves them.

Charlie:
I remember always buying Cumberland sausages and... And Tescos or whatever supermarket when I was at university they would always put a bit of fruit in them like apple.

Paul:
Yeah. Yeah. They do that with all sorts of foods. Like they started doing it with cheese and things now. I'm not a great fan of all that. I think these foods can stand up on their own without sticking blueberries and goodness knows what into them.

Charlie:
You've got to get your five a day, though.

Paul:
Yeah, well, I have them separately.

Charlie:
All right. Last but certainly not least, Beef Wellington.

Paul:
Hmm. This is probably one of the most difficult dishes I find to cook, because in my opinion, you have to get the meat just right. Otherwise, the whole thing is completely destroyed. So you're you're using fillet of beef, which is a premium cut of beef and very expensive. So you've got to, you've got to look after that.

Charlie:
Yeah. What does it visually, what does it look like if somebody does- doesn't understand what Beef Wellington is?

Paul:
A big sausage roll?

Charlie:
Big sausage roll.

Paul:
Yeah. It's kind of the same principle. You're encasing meat in pastry, but it would be big.

Charlie:
To fill to serve a whole family.

Paul:
Yeah. And then you would slice it in probably 30 centimetre slices, a nice chunky slice.

Charlie:
30 centimetres.

Paul:
Yeah. So like that, that'd be about that, yeah.

Charlie:
30 centimetres. That's a ruler. Three. Three centimetres.

Paul:
Yeah, well it's a big cow?

Charlie:
Three centimetres.

Paul:
Three yeah.

Charlie:
30 millimetres. Yes.

Paul:
I'm hopeless at millimetres because, of course I'm inches. I'm- I'm Imperial.

Charlie:
There we go.

Paul:
Yeah. Still cook with Imperial, as well.

Charlie:
Okay, Well, talking of which, you need to probably get into the kitchen.

Paul:
I do, yes. Yeah. Busy day ahead.

Charlie:
Thank you very much for sacrificing an hour of your time.

Paul:
That's alright. I'll send you the bill later.

Charlie:
Oh, good. I look forward to that. Okay, But yeah, that's all. Thank you very much for listening to the end, guys. I hope you enjoyed it and I'll see you next time on the British English podcast. Thank you, Paul.

Paul:
You're very welcome. Thank you.

Charlie:
Bye bye. There we go. The end of part three, meaning the end of the episode. Well done for getting through the entirety of it. Make sure you use all of the resources available to you in your membership. Thanks once again for supporting the show and I look forward to seeing you next time on the British English Podcast.