Transcript of Bonus Episode 036 - Transcript

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to another episode of the British English podcast where I, your host, Charlie Baxter, try to expose you to a variety of cultural differences and similarities in an attempt for you to better understand British culture and at the same time learn British English. And in this episode I have a guest on that I will be conversing with about her experience so far with a variety of countries and cultures, as she, I would imagine, would admit to having the travel bug. This doesn't mean she has influenza, but it does mean she bloody loves to explore and that she has, so much so that she was asked to be a host of a Netflix series called The World's Most Amazing Vacation Rentals. And that is how I first came to know of our guest. One night I was sat down eating my weight in pasta on the sofa with my partner, and as we were wanting to indulge ourselves in some travel ideas for our upcoming trip to Bali, we started watching this Netflix series and then a few months roll around and one of the hosts of this show pops up on a good friend's Instagram. And after twisting this mutual friend's arm, I have managed to get this TV host on the show for you. It turns out she also has her own podcast called Not Your Average Joe, which I'm sure we will talk about later on. But yeah, considering she's ticked off a fair few countries, hosted a TV show on travel, got a podcast and and she's a polyglot, I felt obliged to see if she would come on and have a chat with me about all of the above and more. Let's get into it and welcome our guest for today, Jo Franco. Hello, Jo. How are you doing today?

Jo:
Charlie? I am flattered by your lovely introduction. Thank you.

Charlie:
You like that?

Jo:
You said the weight in pasta was a nice touch.

Charlie:
Good. Yes. Well, I felt like it was important for you to know, considering your hard work that you put into that show. Where should we begin? So you've actually done some travelling recently. Let's go there. Where have you been in this world?

Jo:
So this year alone, I made a little video and I put it on my Instagram. It was like a 2022 travel recap, and I told myself at the beginning of this year I was going to calm down. And when I looked at my camera roll, I realised I'd been to like 20 plus places and this wasn't to film a show, this was just me being me. And so I think I in hindsight realised like I definitely have a travel bug. Borderline travel problem. It started off in... I went to London, which I spoke to you before we started recording. I'm moving to London, so I'm in between London. I went to Berlin, to Croatia, to Positano, to Thessaloniki, Greece. Then I went back to London, then I went to... Where did I go? To Crete. I mean, I was just bouncing around. It was tons of travel within Europe. Amsterdam, Paris. And that's the beautiful thing about being based in London is that you can hop on a train and have croissants for breakfast within 2 hours, you know, and that's the kind of life I really wanted to live as a kid that I never imagined myself actually living and feel very grateful to be living.

Charlie:
Nice. Very nice. Wow, that's a lot of places. When was the first trip that you went abroad when you were a kid or as an adult maybe? I don't know when your first one was.

Jo:
Great twist. So I was actually born in Brazil. So Rio de Janeiro, in Rio, and my first trip abroad, I was five years old and it was the trip we took to move to a new country. It was a full blown immigration move, but it was not the glamorous move you would think. It was completely just like survival mode. My mom, my two siblings, older siblings, we all moved to the small town in Connecticut. We did not speak English, so I learned how to speak English in school as a six year old. Very painful process. So when there was homework assigned, my mom couldn't help me. It was just very much survival mode. So I empathise with all of the English learners out there because I once was in their shoes. And it is possible because I'm speaking English now.

Charlie:
Yeah, you would have fooled me. I thought you were a Native American, North American English Speaker. Five six years old. That was when you started. And your family, when you would come home, you wouldn't get any English practice with your parents. Did they pick up the language eventually?

Jo:
So my mom was the only parent. So my dad stayed in Brazil and my mom immediately, like on day three of us moving, became a nanny and a housekeeper for a family, an American family. And she was essentially raising four children. And so her English level was based on how the children, the toddlers would speak. So my mom never learned proper English till this day. She speaks with an accent and... She speaks well, right, but like, it's not school English. It's very much survival, learn on the fly English. So we, the kids, we were thrown in school and my siblings were in a different school than I was. So we all had to take care of ourselves because if I couldn't understand what was happening, I couldn't call my siblings, for instance, because they were in a different building. So it was really wild, like not the most lovely experience, but it definitely made me realise that language is a superpower and that's why I learned so many after that experience.

Charlie:
When was the third one that you started to be interested in?

Jo:
So when I was around seven years old, I became pretty fluent at English. And this superpower that I'm talking about got me taken out of classrooms. And I loved it because I did not like school and I would get taken out of classrooms to translate for the new children. So any kid that would come from abroad, I was more useful to them than a teacher that only spoke English. So my little seven year old diabolical mind was like, Whoa. If I learn languages, I can cut class and be rewarded. When it came time to learn French or Spanish in middle school, so in the U.S. middle school, you were around like 11, 12 years old, I chose French because when you speak Portuguese, you can basically understand Spanish and French is a little bit more of a challenge, so I wanted to challenge myself and that's when I started studying French, and it came to me pretty quickly. And then in high school in the US, that's around, you know, 14, 15, 16, I started... I had to write a letter to get permission to learn both Italian and French. So I was doing Italian school like Italian class and French back to back and learned Italian pretty quickly. But these are all school level languages, right? You're not going to become fluent. So I only mastered those languages. It's hard even to say, Master, because it's like a muscle. If you don't use it, you lose it. But with my travels, I really started getting better and speaking fluently in Italian, French, and then later Spanish finally, and now Greek and a little bit of Egyptian Arabic. And hopefully that list will continue.

Charlie:
Goodness me. Egyptian Arabic. That's unbelievable. So going back to the third one, French, did that get you out of class as much as your Portuguese?

Jo:
Sadly, no. In high school... So when I was a little older, it did get me recognised. I was in the National Language Honour Society and so that gave me, you know, some street cred. But overall I think learning French actually taught me to learn language because if you're learning in survival mode, you're not understanding grammar, you're not understanding tenses, you're just doing what needs to be done to be understood. So that third language really sealed my understanding of how to learn, because I think a lot of times people don't even know how to learn, and that's a really useful skill.

Charlie:
I would say it's the biggest block for everyone with languages because I've been studying Spanish for an embarrassing length and I've only recently this year figured out how to learn. I've been teaching how to learn at an intermediate to advanced level, but a beginner to intermediate level it's a different game. And yeah, it's taken me a long time, but I'm finally understanding how my brain works a bit more. And yeah, it's a huge difference because you see progress when you wouldn't have for three times the amount of time that you put into it. [So...] I really....

Jo:
I want to ask you, I want to ask you to flip the question how how did you finally learn how you learn? What changed?

Charlie:
Well, my focus on my site is to make the learner be as active as possible in their learning process. So they're making sentences in their brain as opposed to just passively learning conversations, listening to conversations or watching YouTube videos. I think there's always a part for that. You know, onboarding information is important, but I noticed that when I was actively being asked to conjugate sentences and take what I've revised and then pair it up with the English that I need to translate at the beginner stage, that was inspiring my brain to actually fire and use the Spanish as opposed to just letting it wash over me. There's a few more things like also in Spanish classes when they're talking at me in Spanish and I don't understand it. I get really frustrated with myself and then I just can't enjoy the class and I and and then I stop going to the class after a few weeks of struggling, and I found a way to ask the teacher to be more at my level with speaking-wise, a combination of a couple of other things as well. But yeah, those were some thoughts that I had. You learnt a few languages early on and then it continued. And do you think that was- that played a part in how you ended up on Netflix?

Jo:
Honestly, I think language learning plays a part in everything I do, but I don't think that is why I got the job, although it is a nice little, you know, sub line sub header to my title. Like Jo - Polyglot - speaks six languages, travels the world. I was not able to use my languages in the show like I would have liked because it's a 30 minute show. And even though I did sit with the Japanese host in this woodworking town and he taught me Japanese in 30 minutes, obviously since it's a 30 minute show, you're not going to see that. That's just me. No matter what gets shown on a TV show, I will be doing that no matter what. But I think the skills that I got from learning languages and the resilience, because honestly, there is nothing more resilient that I can think of like learning languages. That resilience and tenacity was what got me the job on Netflix and also the ability to connect with anyone. That really was the deciding factor because I was supposed to be in competition with all of the women because they weren't... They were... They were only looking for two hosts, a man and a woman. And then during the audition process, we were kind of... There were 15 of the most beautiful people I have ever seen in my life. In one room, it was like truly like Victoria's Secret models and people full of charisma. These are not basic people, right? These are shining stars. And the way the audition for a show like that works, there's a huge process where they filter through hundreds and thousands of applicants or people that might be good. They interview people. 200 people get, you know, put on the next stage and then you get interviewed again and then they they windle that down to 15 people ish depending on the show. And then they create this daylong audition called a chemistry test, where the job is to literally have chemistry with a stranger. So imagine you and I, Charlie, are sitting in this room with sexy people, feeling a shell of ourselves, knowing that in any minute they could call us. At any minute, they could say, Jo and Charlie, you're up. Now, we would go out into the living room. There are TV executives watching monitors that are coming through a live feed of cameramen who are filming us. So you need to actually know tact, like you need to know the craft of hosting, how to position your body. You need to know how to move, even though it's all improv. And the test is to have chemistry with the stranger and act like we've been the best of friends while casually putting out talking points that you were fed 10 minutes before the camera rolled so they would be like, okay, this is the square footage of the property. Here's a little bit of history. Now we're going to yell Action and you do not stop talking until we yell cut. This is the job, okay, so it's complete improvising. It's complete. I don't even know, like, putting yourself out there in the most vulnerable way, knowing that every single thing that you say could make or break this opportunity. And all of the women are in competition. All of the men are in competition. But while I was in that room, in the holding room, I became friends, for lack of a better word. I just started chatting up this woman, Megan. Even though we were competitors, we hit it off and we started just talking and laughing and having a great time. And the producers saw us chatting and they were like, Wow, we should put you two together. And we were like, well, they're not going to hire two women. Like, we knew that because they definitely want a male in the mix, so why are they even bothering? But when they put us together, they loved the chemistry so much that they ended up creating an entirely new role on the show where all three of us got the job. So they hired my male co-host, Luis and Megan and I. And this was a true act of chemistry, yes, but also being able to connect with anyone, even if they're your quote unquote, competitor.

Charlie:
Wow. I love that. I obviously didn't see the show in their mind at the beginning with just two people. But three people makes such a better dynamic, I think, for the show itself, having three places within the episode as well and having an element of, not, well, friendly competition of like whose... whose place is better, but also when you're going around the place. I feel like most shows that do home visits, they have at least three, don't they? I think two is just a bit too binary. Three makes it a dynamic kind of conversation.

Jo:
This is what they realised when they saw us on tape and like saw all of our chemistry. It felt like a party. But no, usually those shows only have two hosts. It's usually a designer and a real estate expert. And I was the bonus character where it's like Jo, the cultural historian, context giver. And that was really cool because I was able to mould my own role since there was no- I wasn't in charge of design, I wasn't in charge of real estate, I was in charge of travel, culture, like that whole 'why are we here?' element? And I would tell the producers I was like, Damn, this is my dream job. I get to study and to communicate cool facts about why we're here, why this matters. And I started talking about sustainability, which I'm passionate about, and history of places. So it was a really amazing opportunity. I'm super grateful that it happened.

Charlie:
That's so cool. Did you know who they felt like aas the person out of you and the other co host, the female co host, sorry what's her name?

Jo:
Megan.

Charlie:
Megan, did you feel like you knew who had it already in the bag and who was like the third person?

Jo:
No, you know, the thing...

Charlie:
Or was it just...?

Jo:
So they actually put us together, Megan and I, and they were like, okay, how are you two different? And I'm like, I don't know this person. I literally just met her, but I went into survival mode and I was like, Are you a morning person? Yeah, okay, I'm a night person. Are you an outdoorsy person? No, I am. Do you like to cook? Okay, I don't. And so I basically, they wanted to see that we were different enough that it made sense to have both of us. Because while we are similar with energy and banter, we're very different as human beings. And, you know, like our experience or not even our values, but just like our how we've lived our lives has been very different. I'm definitely more of the like going out there, throwing myself in culture, learning language. And she's like, Let me redesign this whole house. Let me create art. And so that's why it fit. And it's hard to choose between one or the other because they're so different.

Charlie:
Yes. Yes, I see. Oh, excellent. Let's just give a back story of the show. It's literally the title, The Most Amazing Vacation Rentals on the Planet. And is it your choice or is it the producer who finds where to go?

Jo:
Honestly, it's both. And we were also filming during COVID, so the show had to stop and they had to reroute because we were supposed to go to Europe, but COVID hit in the middle of production. And so for four months we were kind of dark. We didn't know if we would even go back on the show. But at this time, the producers had to completely reschedule the entire show and choose locations where we could be, you know, in huge spaces so it was COVID safe. We were in Montana on a ranch, like that wasn't planned before. There was a lot of improvising because of COVID.

Charlie:
That makes sense, because I actually looked at it to try and figure out what places you had been to skimming through the locations. And it was America-heavy. It was pretty much throughout the States, wasn't it? I mean, there were other places, but still, [yes, so...] it was a lot more of the US.

Jo:
Exactly. That wasn't initially the plan. So right when we started, we started shooting the end of January in 2020. We went from LA, we went to three islands in Hawaii, then we went to Japan to two different cities in Japan. Then we went to two different cities in Finland. Then we went three different cities in Bali. Then we went to the Bahamas, then we went to the Dominican Republic like and then the show stopped and then they basically said, [Right] the world's ending, go home, and we'll contact you as soon as we can get back on the road. And so there were global components, you know? When you watch the show, you see that there are global destinations, and that was pre-COVID. And then during COVID, it was a lot more challenging.

Charlie:
Was season two more US based?

Jo:
Well, we mixed everything.

Charlie:
Or the other way round?

Jo:
It was all mixed.

Speaker3:
Yeah. So. Right, right, right, right.

Jo:
When you watch both seasons, there are global, you know, places.

Charlie:
Yes. You mentioned Bali. So yes, this is why I flicked on to your show because we're going to Bali in two weeks and we've booked one place. We heard from people to book your first three or four nights and then see where the wind takes you. But I don't know if that's good advice or not.

Jo:
I mean, it depends. If you... It depends on your improv, in your improv tolerance, like how do you want to feel? If you're really burnt, I would recommend booking more than just three nights. But Bali is the kind of place where you meet people and they recommend something and you can, you know, on the fly, change your plans. I've done both. Sometimes I even get upset at myself for being such a planner because then I end up either abandoning the plan that I made, which means losing money, or, you know, I have to stay with my plan and miss out on doing something super cool. So it depends. There are pros and cons to both travel strategies.

Charlie:
Yes, I have a bit of a frustration with the planners and bookers in the world, including yourself and my girlfriend or fiancee, because I've got a few friends who are really focussed on planning to the point where they can't focus on the now. So when they get to a place, they think about the next place and it makes me frustrated that they're not mindful and appreciative of where they are at. But me not being able to think, you know, 24 hours or more beyond, maybe I can do a week, maybe, maybe two. But it's hard for me to go beyond that. I don't get a look in. I can't get to a place because it's all fully booked. So I can't appreciate where I'm at because I'm nowhere.

Jo:
Exactly. And then it's stressful. And then a holiday that should be relaxing becomes stressful because you're wondering where you're going to sleep. So again, pros and cons to both.

Charlie:
Yes, exactly. Where did you go in Bali for the show?

Jo:
So we went to Ubud, which was really beautiful, hustle, bustle city, and we stayed in in this place called the Bird's Nest, if I'm not mistaken. And it was like wild. It was- There were pods on stilts stacked up on each other and they look like birds nests. So if you're daring, you can climb up these bamboo steps and go up to the third, fourth level of the pod and you see above the treetops and it's pretty much like an open basket. So you're in nature. And that was amazing. Incredible. Outdoor showers, like you're feeling free, you know, it's one of those, you're feeling good. And then after that...

Charlie:
That looks good. I was just going to ask, what happens if you need a wee at night?

Jo:
Yeah, that is a whole thing on the show. It's like, this is why you've got to be strategic. All decisions need to be strategic. If you're a midnight, wee-er, you got to go on a lower pod, because otherwise, when you get down the entire pod, you know, all three or four of the pods shake. Exactly. It's it's very scary. So I was like, I'll be on pod level two, because that's I think the max I can do here.

Charlie:
Was the male co-host at the top?

Jo:
He was at the very top, Yeah.

Charlie:
So he's got a bladder of steel.

Jo:
Well, yeah. And also he has a wee, you know, we a wee-wee so he could just like stick it out and pee. And hopefully no one's walking around.

Charlie:
Did he do that?

Jo:
No. But I'm sure he thought about it.

Charlie:
Yeah I would, but I mean, is it a vertical drop, or is it...

Jo:
Complete vertical.

Charlie:
Slightly-

Jo:
No, no, no.

Charlie:
Tiered?

Jo:
Absolute vertical. Yeah.

Charlie:
He wouldn't be peeing on your bed.

Jo:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Okay, so that was Ubud. And then where else did you go?

Jo:
Then we went to, this was my property,a really beautiful property in Selat, which is this, like very off-the-beaten-path town, village almost. And we stayed in this place called the Butterfly House. And it's one of the most Instagrammed places. They have these big nets where you're just laying and you're overlooking just acres and acres of rice fields. Spectacular, very peaceful, you know, flower petals in the bathtub, kind of a vibe. And similar there, you're you're sleeping in the outdoors. So you're sleeping in this tree house essentially with mosquito nets over the bed like a huge canopy. But you can hear whatever. You can hear bats, you can hear birds. It's very much in the nature which I have come to appreciate so much, having lived in cities for so long. I'm just like, give me the nature.

Charlie:
Yeah, I noticed that when I came to Sydney, actually. The birds are insanely loud outside of England. Well, I don't know, but yeah, Australia, they, they really like to let us know it's morning. I think also a bit too early in my opinion. I'm, I'm not the best at getting up at like five in the morning. The birds love it and I've noticed that a lot of Aussies actually have earplugs like it's normal, I heard from a couple of Aussies. They're like, Yeah, we all wear earplugs. Everyone. Probably that's a sweeping statement, but yeah.

Jo:
I feel like that's so dangerous. I don't like sleeping with like, things in my ears or covering my eyes. I'm like, I've got to be ready. This is travel trauma as well. Like, you never know what you need to be ready for. I'm the like, I'm the stay ready so you don't have to get ready kind of a person like I'm ready to go.

Charlie:
I imagined a bayonet poking you then.

Jo:
Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie:
Wow. Okay. And then you went to the really luxurious one. Where was that in Bali.

Jo:
That was in Seminyak, which is actually where a lot of Aussies go to party. It was basically Australia. It reminded me of what we do here in the States. Like a lot of Americans go to Cancun, it's that vibe. But for Australians.

Charlie:
Yes, yes, I'm worried about that. We've got a few Aussies that like to drink here. I like a drink now and again, but I don't want to, you know, I don't want that to be the main focus every single day at all. And they said, Yeah, go to Seminyak, go to Seminyak. I'm like, Okay, don't go to Seminyak.

Jo:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I wouldn't personally choose to go to Seminyak, but it was lively. You know, anywhere that there's tourism, you're going to have an abundance of options for bars, restaurants, and that's good. Pros and cons to everything.

Charlie:
Yeah, exactly. So guys listening, check out the Netflix show because that is episode one, season one. So it's quite interesting to have listened to this conversation and then experience it yourself on Netflix. And you can see Jo being the pro that she is. We've probably come towards the latter part of part one. Let me just check a few other questions that I had in store for you. I want to squeeze this one in. Are there any places that you went to that you felt like you would go back to, that you would want to go back to and maybe even live.

Jo:
So many places. I think Finland, Finland was a place that I'm like, I've got to come back here. It was so beautiful and eco friendly and lovely people and Santa Claus lives there. So it's like just so many reasons to go to Finland. We went to this place called Rovaniemi, which is in the Arctic Circle, just outrageous. And, you know, I went into, there's this tradition in Finland where you go into a smoke sauna and you roast a little bit and then you go into a frozen lake. It's a hole in the lake called an avanto. So you go in there and we did this on the show. It was in the eco friendly episode and it's the wildest thing, Charlie, you're you're whole body goes into shock and you can... Everything is still. The only thing moving is your mind. And around you you see these tiny crystals of ice forming around your body. That's how cold it is. And there's nothing like that feeling of getting out of a frozen lake, reminding you you're very much alive and your body is functioning and it's glorious. That was one of... That was a once in a lifetime experience that the show gave me that just made me, I don't know. I was just so in awe of Finland after that.

Charlie:
Yeah. Okay. I mean, it sounds unbelievable. And, you know, you've got to be in the right frame of mind and the right place to do that kind of extreme cold ice dunk. But you could just make an ice bath. Have you thought about that since you did it?

Jo:
Yeah, you could, But you're not going to have miles and miles of beautiful trees covered in white snow in the middle of a frozen lake in Finland. You know?

Charlie:
You could put VR on, couldn't you? I mean, don't dip too far down because you could electrocute yourself. But yeah.

Jo:
Creative. I like it.

Charlie:
Yeah, I know what you mean. I haven't done a... What is it called? A cold.

Jo:
Cold plunge. Yeah, like a cold plunge.

Charlie:
Plunge? Yeah, that's it. Cold plunge. I haven't done a cold plunge because I feel like a lot of the time they make you do it really early in the morning. I think I'd be more open to it midday.

Jo:
I think you're just not a morning person, is what I'm hearing. The birds. The ice plunge. It's just not your thing, Charlie.

Charlie:
You've cracked it. You've. You've sussed me out. Exactly. Okay, so we've got loads more to get onto, but we will save it for part two and part three. But before we go to part two, I feel like I want to mention your podcast, not your average Jo. I like the pun on that and we might need to explain it. So obviously Jo is your name and Joe is also the name that we use in English to suggest that it's an average person, right?

Jo:
Yeah. And there's the expression just your average Joe. Right. The average Joe, it's like the basic person. And I wanted to create a podcast that would be almost like a research project for me to interview my favourite people, for me to interview new people that inspire me that I'm learning from, but for me to also review books that I'm reading and talk about things that I care about that I think are useful to people like journaling. I have a journaling company called Jo Club, so now I've started a whole new segment where I'm reading journal entries, which, by the way, is an amazing language learning technique, is journaling in a different language. So yeah, that's what Not Your Average Jo is all about. So every episode will cover a topic that will help all of us be a little less average. And what I'm realising in these episodes is there is no such thing as the average Joe. It's impossible. And that's the coolest part because I'm like, Oh, I want to be, you know, every episode, I want to be less average. And then every conversation I'm like, Damn, nobody's average. There is no way you can be average. It's just a matter of like understanding what makes you unique. And so that's the mission of the podcast.

Charlie:
That's beautiful. Really nice. So not your average Jo on all podcast apps, I assume. And it will be in the link or these show notes. So yeah, check that podcast out. And of course the Netflix show, The World's Most Amazing Vacation Rentals. But yeah, Joe, we will continue the conversation in part two, but you might want to say goodbye to part one listeners for now.

Jo:
Goodbye Part one listeners. I hope to see you in part two and three. It's going to get juicy.

Charlie:
You heard it, listeners. All right. If you are just here for part one, we will see you next time. But yeah, part two listeners coming around the corner soon. There we go. See you guys. Bye for now. We have come to the end of part one. So feel free to take a break from your listening practice, but if you're happy to keep going, then we're now moving on to part two of this episode. Thanks so much for being a premium or Academy member and enjoy the rest of the show.

Charlie:
Oh, that must have been so nerve wracking. The room of thousands of people were whittled down, but still...

Jo:
Yes.

Charlie:
I assume a huge ego boost that you feel like you can do anything now that you've, you know, surpassed all those auditions.

Jo:
Well, listen, it's so, so subjective. It was like down to my height and weight. As crazy as that sounds, like all three hosts are the same height. And that is not me being great at my job. That's just lucky, you know? Yes. I walked into the room and, like, knew knew somewhat of what I was doing because I had been doing it for so long. But... It was nice. It was a good ego boost, but it was also like, Damn, this is not just because I'm the shit. It's like there are other factors at play here. Diversity too. Let's be real, you know, like they need to check that box. The experience was preparation, meeting opportunity, which some would argue is the equation to luck.

Charlie:
Very nice. Yeah, exactly. And your YouTube channel with Damon? That was... Was that the starting block to you getting camera ready, getting confident on camera?

Jo:
I was doing a few other things. I kept getting approached by people. So I grew up undocumented. I didn't have any like charisma because I grew up in hiding, right? Like I was very quiet and shy. First, I didn't speak English, so I was shy because I couldn't communicate. And then I was shy because my mom was like, if you make any, you know, attention, if you draw any attention to yourself and it's bad, like we could all get deported. So it was very much not what ended up happening in my life. But even so, when I was in middle school, in high school, I kept getting tapped to do things like host a little promotion for the school board. And I'm like, me? My high school history teacher was like, Jo, you're bubbly. You'd be great for camera. And I was absolutely mortified, you know? And this kept happening. And then in university, when I met Damon, we started, we travelled abroad, we studied abroad at the same time and we both were like, Oh yeah, let's film our little adventures. And then it became this activity we could do that was free because we were both super broke. So it's like we have nothing to do, but what we could do is spend time filming and editing because that's completely free. And then we created a whole show concept and then hit the ground running from there.

Charlie:
Undocumented - Does that mean that you couldn't technically leave the country because you might not be able to get back in?

Jo:
Yes. So when you're undocumented, it basically means that you came on a visa. And/or some people don't even have visas, but that's like illegally crossing the border situation and you just overstay your visa. And a lot of parents, like my mom who are trying to raise their children in a less violent society or like give them more opportunity or escaping something terrible in the country with government and things like that, they they do this because of survival. And when you overstay your visa, you can start entering into the legal process to get your papers, which we did immediately. You hire a lawyer, an immigration lawyer, and you pay thousands and thousands of dollars for them to start your process and continue your process every year. But while your process is pending, you physically cannot leave the country. You're paying taxes to the government, you're working, you're a citizen; you're not a citizen, but like you're a citizen of society, let's say, because you're paying taxes, but you get no benefits. You don't get health care, you don't get Social Security even though you're paying into it.

Charlie:
How do you get work rights, assuming... Were you working? Yes, you were paying taxes.

Jo:
Well, so my mum...

Charlie:
How do you get...

Jo:
There was this like program where she could get a tax ID number. And so she did this and my brother did this and they were able to work. By the time I was 16, which is the working age in the States, we had already gotten our green card, which allows you- that gives you your Social Security number, which is what you need to start working. So again, luck, I got lucky. But yeah, my mom and a lot of other undocumented immigrants will work under the table, which means they're not on the books, so they're just getting paid in cash. So it was very much this life in hiding, life in the darkness. And, you know, hundreds and thousands of people have this experience where they grow up the children of these immigrant parents who just want the best for them and, you know, for their children. And we have to figure out how to make it work. But you cannot - you can't leave the country because if you leave and go back home, you can't return for five years. So you're just stuck in this limbo where you're not a citizen of the new country that you're in. And you you know, you can't go back to the country that you're from and you just go day by day.

Charlie:
Yeah, well, that's that's big. And did that impress upon you the importance or the significance of travel once you were allowed to leave the country or were other things on your mind?

Jo:
Well, I mean, there is such a mixed feeling that I have with travel because I'm not looking at travel like somebody who grew up going to vacations in Mexico with their family. I didn't have that luxury, right? So I looked at travel as an opportunity to learn. I always saw it as like something I wanted to invest in because I was lucky enough to do it. So now I'm not going to do it just frivolously. I'm going to go and learn the language. I'm going to go and learn the facts. I'm going to go and meet people that are going to change my life, that I can learn from them and share their stories. It was never I'm going to go sip a coconut drink on a beach. In fact, I don't really travel like that. It's just not my nature. It was almost like, I think part of the reason I was so keen on making videos with the travels is because I wanted to tell myself that this was not just frivolous, it was something I was investing in and I would turn it into a career and it became my career.

Charlie:
Nice.

Jo:
I'm going to be Vlogging a story about coconut drink sellers and telling you why it matters. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's me.

Charlie:
It's nice. Really nice. In your years of travelling around, have you lived in other countries? You said you lived in London for four months. Have you lived in other places?

Jo:
Yeah. So I would do this thing where I had an apartment in Los Angeles. So I grew up in Connecticut and then I moved to Manhattan. I went to university there, I studied international business, I studied abroad in Paris. So I lived in Paris for a semester in a French home stay with a Moroccan French mother who did not speak any English. So this is where my French was like transformed around. [Skyrocketed] Yeah. So I lived in Paris. That was amazing but I was super broke. And then when I moved to Los Angeles in 2015 to really invest full blown in the YouTube channel, we had no Plan B, right? It was like classic entrepreneur story. I moved with a carry on suitcase. We didn't have a place to live. We crashed on a couch, eventually found a rat and roach infested apartment where we set up an IKEA table where we would edit and film every single day until things worked out. But...

Charlie:
It's amazing to think how many IKEA desks have started businesses.

Jo:
It's true, right?

Charlie:
It's the go to desk, isn't it?

Jo:
It is.

Charlie:
For a Start-up, yeah.

Jo:
Because it's cheap and sturdy and that's all you need.

Charlie:
Yeah, Yeah.

Jo:
Shout out to IKEA powering entrepreneurs around the globe.

Charlie:
With rats under your feet. But a sturdy desk for your laptop.

Jo:
I mean, let's not even go overboard. I think sturdy is an overstatement. It was... It stood.

Charlie:
Yeah, well, I've just changed desks. This is not an IKEA one. It's wobbling like hell. And I had one before and it wasn't wobbly, so. Yeah. So you went to LA. But hang on, let's go back to Paris. The cultural differences there. How were the cultural differences there or similarities?

Jo:
Oh, it was tough. It was tough. I can't lie. I went in January, not recommended. It's very sad and grey every day. And of course, the minute it started becoming beautiful out, it was spring time I had to leave. So that was just poorly planned. But overall, I was hungry a lot of the times because I was broke. And French food's very expensive. I ate tons of kebab and cheap crepes, which at least there was that. The lifestyle is just more modest, which I really appreciated. You're not spending so much consumption on energy. You're not like throwing everything in the washing machine after using it once. So from the American consumerist, completely like just wasteful culture going into the French culture where you have to walk up six flights of stairs and that's fine. This is just how it works. There's no elevator in the building and you're going to the grocery store every day to pick up a few things as opposed to like massive shopping every week. It's just a different... I feel like it's a more a lived lifestyle in a way. Like, you're really more active in your living situation. You're walking a lot more. Whereas in the States, especially growing up, this and I'm referring to the states as in outside of major cities, because New York cannot really be compared to like Connecticut, for instance, where it's suburban and you're always in a house or your car. So it was a nice life for me to walk through parks and to be outside and going to the bakery, you know, That was amazing.

Charlie:
I bet. Yeah. The bakeries are great, aren't they? Oh, that was France. Then you went to LA, got an IKEA table? [Yes]. Started your business.

Jo:
Yeah. And then...

Charlie:
Or continued your business.

Jo:
When... When the business started taking off, we could afford some travel and we would basically just wait for our lease to expire, put all of our stuff in storage, and I would take off by myself and I would spend a month in Italy alone and a month in Greece alone, and I would sign up for language classes and go to Sorrento and live with homestay families. And this was my life. And go to Paris for a month and then go back to Italy for a month. Super fun.

Charlie:
So that's unbelievable. But are you jumping from country to country back to back or are you going back to... back to LA picking up your stuff and then...

Jo:
No, no, I'm going back to back. So it would be like six months of stability or six months to a year of stability and then six months of travel pretty consistently. And then, you know, we lived in London for four months and then I would travel to Brazil for a month and it was just this digital nomad before Digital Nomad was even a thing.

Charlie:
That's nice. Okay, You went to London. It's interesting for an outsider thinking Americans and Brits, they speak the language. They might share most things, but I think we're quite different in in many subtle ways. What did you experience when you landed?

Jo:
Yeah, same, same, but different. You know how they say it. So I grew up in New England, in the States, which is pretty funny because England feels like home architecturally. A lot of the houses are designed almost identically where I grew up, so it was nice, it felt homey. But yeah, I mean, there are like 'bits and bobs' and, you know, like the pub culture was new to me and embarrassingly saying, 'You like my pants?' in public, which I learned quickly that it was not pants, it was, you know, trousers like, Yeah, so there's a difference there.

Charlie:
My partner, she made a faux pas. She was in Ohio working in a corporate environment, and she was she's a graphic designer and she was trying to make the eraser bigger on the Adobe software. And she said out loud to the Americans, How do I make my rubber bigger? Because rubber means condom in most walks of life in America, right?

Jo:
Yes, exactly.

Charlie:
A few differences with the language, but similar architecture for you. What about any any behavioural differences did you spot?

Jo:
Well, listen, it's hard to create a blanket statement for any which culture any which people. What I noticed is that in London specifically, it's such a global city, I had friends who were Greek, I had friends who were French, Italian and, you know, Turkish. And a lot of those different cultures, they stick together and they all say that it's very hard to become friends with British people. Now, I beg to differ because I became friends with mostly British people, which was shocking to me because most British people say they don't really like Americans. So it was like I did feel that. I got to admit, like most places in the world, people see me and they're like, Oh, she's Brazilian. Also I have curly hair, brown skin, so I look Brazilian. When I'm in the UK, immediately when I opened my mouth, it's like you're American. It's and it's not a good thing. It's a stamp of like, stupid American dooosh right on my forehead. And I'm like, Guys, I swear. I'm a good person! So that is something that I kept noticing, that I'm like, Damn, do I like on a British accent? Like, I can't even if I tried.

Charlie:
You've got the languages down. Surely you've got some accents in you.

Jo:
No, it's so weird. I can learn languages, but not accents. If somebody asked me to impersonate my mother's accent with a gun to my head, I would- I would not pass the test.

Charlie:
Gosh, that was living in London. And you felt like London was so fun that you stayed within that area predominantly for those four months. Did you see any other parts? I know that you went to see Lucy.

Jo:
Yes, I went to the Cotswolds and it was so lovely. I opened the window to a bunch of sheep staring at me. Judging, judging me, and I loved it. And, you know, seeing the little cottages built in the middle of the rivers and these cute little bridges and the farm to table culture, I loved it. It was like villages, you know, and the fact that you could take a train there on the weekend and remember what fresh air smells like is a definite perk of living in London. And having friends who live in the Cotswolds!

Charlie:
One thing I wanted to ask you was on your YouTube channel, you, I think, personify positivity and very much respect the idea of self affirmations, I'm going to guess, right?

Jo:
Well, I don't really call it affirmations. It's funny, like, you know that there's this trend that's happening about mindfulness and like affirmations and all. I have stacks and stacks of journals since I was 12 years old of doing exactly that, of like writing thoughts down, thinking strategically about what I want my life, going for it, being clear. If I'm feeling negative, I would go back and revise my own writing so that it wasn't so negative. So I've just been doing that for as long as I can remember. And when I share it, it's cool because people are now looking at, you know, some people have also done this their whole life, but a lot of people are now digging into this space of like, I want to learn how to journal, I want to stop and think. I want to take time and listen to what is happening inside my own head. Because it's just a symptom of our society, like we're living in so much consumption and it's addicting. These apps and content is designed to be addicting, and so before you know it, you've been scrolling on TikTok for 6 hours and then you go.

Charlie:
That's a long poo.

Jo:
I know that is a long poo. That's a constipation right there. That's a long... You know, I even set a limit to my tik tok. I was like, I can only be on this app for one hour a day because there was a time where I was just doing the thing that people do. But anyways, a symptom of of our society right now, even the strong willed people feel like they don't even hear their own thoughts. There's just too much going on all the time.

Charlie:
I really agree with that. Really, really agree with that. And I see it day to day. We have come to the end of part two now. So again, feel free to pause the episode to take a break from your listening practice and come back to the last part when you're ready. All right.

Charlie:
So moving on to part three now. Enjoy. I did psychology at university and came out wanting to do talk therapy and training in that kind of area. And I felt like British people always had to sell the product before and me to pitch the idea of positive psychology to British people. Whereas when I met people online in America and when I moved to Ohio, people were like really open to the idea. And this was Ohio, not like the East or West Coast. So I felt like there was this obvious, really big difference between North Americans and Brits with that kind of positive psychology. So I wanted to ask you if you felt because you met a lot of Brits, did you feel the difference in the the sort of the dry sort of deadpan humour that we have and the satire and almost we tend to tell somebody to stop being so bloody positive if they are that kind of way.

Jo:
Yeah. There's like a dark cynicism that I love so much with Brits. I love a good, dark humour. I love a dry, deadpan face. And I do agree, I have to agree with you that I think Europeans, not just Brits, they aren't as maybe it'll change, but they aren't as keen on like rah rah. Let's talk about our feelings as Americans and North Americans are. But maybe that'll change, I think. So I've led journalling workshops where I ask questions based on whoever is the audience. So I do this with my company, Jo Club. I do this online to a global group of people who are members. I do this twice a month. I've trained facilitators and now there are four sessions a month. And really what it is, it's like picture a yoga class meeting, a meditation class with like a writing workshop. So we're asking journal prompts, we're actually journaling them, and then we're putting you in breakout groups and discussing and discussing as a full group. And this weekend I hosted a call with 100 people, which is insane because it was still intimate. But what I find in those calls, and as well as in- I led one where Lucy was in the room when I show people what I'm doing, that it's not this fluffy thing that I can ask strategic questions that people can then reflect. I'm just giving- I'm the catalyst for you to solve your own problems, for lack of a better word, and for you to get to the root of like what's going on in your mind. So I think if marketed correctly, and a friend of mine who is Belgian, he was like, Jo, can you add some strategic like instead of saying you're doing journaling workshops, can you do something like strategic mindfulness workshops? Because I would sign up for that because the word strategic is in it. And I'm like, yeah, I get that. So maybe I could put that in the marketing. But really I don't want to take away from what we're doing. Like journaling is the tool to get to this clarity. But a lot of people in Europe are reluctant until they see what it is, and then they're all convinced. They're like, Oh damn, I didn't know I would extremely value this. I didn't know I would feel this way. And I'm like, Yeah, there is. It's not all about positive. It's not fake positivity, right? This is like deep-rooted, deep questions. You actually sitting with yourself and answering some profound things to help you move forward more strategically.

Charlie:
That's beautiful. I imagine this would be fantastic for even non-native English language learners to excel in both their spiritual area and their language.

Jo:
Oh honey yes. Yes it is.

Charlie:
What's the actual website that they would go to?

Jo:
So Jo Club dot World. Joclub.world. And that's actually one thing I'm building now. I did a 21 day language challenge. It's on my Instagram now so you could find most of the prompts there. It was free. I did it testing to see if this would help me learn Greek because I'm like beginner, intermediate in Greek. And for 21 days I created journal prompts for myself at a beginner level and I posted myself reading my entries and I swear to you, by day 21 I was actually communicating in Greek, which is insane because it was me. It's like you're adding context to the language learning. So you know how when you're- when somebody gives you materials, it doesn't relate to you. This isn't translated in how you care about things, but if it's a journal entry where I ask you a question like, How are you feeling today? You're going to think, How am I feeling today? And that emotion is what triggers the memory. I think emotion is the strongest memory cue, which is why when we think about our life, the things that we remember usually have some strong emotion associated to them. So I'm like, how can I bring this into language learning? And I'm doing this through journaling. So yes, I have a challenge that is live, 21-day self awareness challenge, really good for language learners, but I'm also designing one specific for language learners in January.

Charlie:
Very nice. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I've always encouraged that with with language learning, trying to- Even to the point where it's like getting silly, where you you have to create an emotion around that learning block or that chunk of memory. If you create emotion, it's far more likely to embed in the long term memory. So fantastic. We'll put that in the show notes and and the like learning units that premium members get access to. Wonderful. So we have a huge amount more, but I think we're going to skip that game. All good. I prefer the spontaneous conversation. Can I just dig a little bit deeper? 5 minutes.

Jo:
Yes.

Charlie:
What it's like with Netflix.

Jo:
Yes.

Charlie:
So like, how stressful is it with the cast and crew around?

Jo:
Honestly, people are like, I want your job. And I'm like, Honey, I doubt you could handle it. Like, as crazy as that sounds. No, honestly, like my co-host will tell you, it is hard core. You are waking up. I was waking up at five in the morning. I'm like you, Charlie. I'm not a morning person. I was waking up at five in the morning, six days a week for a year. Okay. And I'm waking up like putting my face on. I did my own hair and makeup. I chose my own outfits. I'm travelling around with huge suitcases. Every two days, you're sleeping in a new bed and usually you start shooting at around- You have to be camera ready at like seven or eight. They put mikes on you, so you're surveillance, so you lose all privacy. You literally can't even fart without the sound guy hearing. And like, you know what it is to not fart for a year. Charlie? You know how stressful that is?

Charlie:
God, I struggle just on a plane. Wow.

Jo:
Yeah, man. Like, you can't even speak. Can't talk shit. You got to just, like, be super hyper self surveillanced. And this is where it comes down to, like, just experience and also becoming friends with the sound guy to be, like, Cut it off, shut it down, you know? By month three, you have to have the best of friendships with the sound guy so he can cut it. So you could fart freely and complain if you're stressed out. These are things no one knows.

Charlie:
That is something that will never be on like the Late Late Show or anything. Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, I didn't think of that. Because also, as you said, like early doors and you've got to pretend that you're waking up in this accommodation. It's like. Ah ! Morning. Morning, guys.

Jo:
Yeah. Yeah. And there was also that piece, right? Like, so the show, the crew would come in at call time, which would be maybe like 9:00, but we were actually sleeping in these properties and the executive producer wanted to film us actually waking up there. So we would start shooting before the crew even arrived, whether it was like self shot vlogs or the producer would come in with a camera, like a handheld camera, just to capture some natural connective tissue is what it's called. So it's like, Hey, guys, we actually woke up in this property, which the crew would not be able to capture because the crew would come way too late. And by the time the crew came, we were ready to rock and roll. So when you watch the show, you see a little bit of grainy footage from iPhones. This is what I'm talking about. So you see me without my makeup on. You see me with crazy hair, you see me, you know, in the middle of the night laughing with Meghan. Like, those are real moments. But it just means that we're filming for 12 hours with the crew, but an additional 2 hours in the morning before they even arrived and maybe an hour after they left. So it was like truly non-stop boot camp, which I'm grateful for because the energy that I- the stamina for the energy that we cultivated is like, shit, I can get whatever I want done in this lifetime. It's just a matter of desire, really.

Charlie:
Yeah. That's hard though to be on all the time like that. But yeah, once you've done that, yeah, you can feel like you can do a lot of things comparing it to your life, your, your business online and what you do day to day. Outside of that show. I'm thinking because I do this podcast and I really, I can't see myself not wanting to do this. The work life balance is unbelievably like healthy. That's the best word for it. It's really healthy and it allows for creativity to flow whenever I want it to, which is the best way for it to come to me, I think. And a lot of friends are like 'Ah! If you get successful enough, maybe BBC will want you or something like that'. I don't have that desire, you know, if BBC came knocking, if they're listening to this premium part, then I would have to think about it. But my point is, I don't think that's the aim for content creators nowadays. Do you think that now that you've experienced it?

Jo:
Yes, I absolutely think that. Listen, it's one hell of a resume line item. It really is like saying I hosted a Netflix show, I'm on your podcast because of that. Otherwise we might have never crossed paths. Right? That is undeniable. However, this applies not just to TV shows. This also applies to book deals. I have really good friends who have had global success, like international bestsellers, and they will tell me, Jo, I was happier and making more money without this. However, I have this as a line item, but I would never do this again. And this seems to be the sentiment of all of my friends who have gone from being content creators, which I was, full blown, like working, doing what I wanted, going where I wanted, making the episodes that I wanted. And at the time this was primarily on the YouTube channel that I started out with, Damon and Jo. So I was doing that and making good money to going on the road for a year where I'm just a small piece of the puzzle. I have no real creative say other than how I choose to deliver my lines and segments. And even that was a blessing because I, again, I had this like third rule that they weren't really anticipating. So I was able to be creative in my own little box. But then when you when you see both sides of the coin, it's really clear to see that the creator path is far more rewarding and lucrative than people expect. Some people want that street cred. Some people will not stop until they get that TV show or that book deal. But having had both experiences, I think my life is much more rewarding. And, you know, as a creator. But then the other side of that is like, well, damn, it's hard to say that because I'm playing devil's advocate on myself. It's hard to say that it's much more rewarding being a content creator, because when a little girl stops me on the street with her mom and she has brown skin like mine, and this has happened and she's like, 'You made me feel pretty'. And the mom is like, 'my daughter didn't like herself until she saw you travelling the world on a Netflix show. So thank you'. When I see that, I'm like, Damn. Well, there is so much reward in that Netflix model that maybe I don't get to see every day because there's not a comments section the way that there is when you create content online. Both sides have their perks. But as a creative, I think I like to call the shots a little bit more than than not. And I think that's the bottom line for me.

Charlie:
I can I can see that, definitely. And talking of which, how did you feel like the final edit came out in comparison to living through that series? Like, were you, did you feel like that was accurate? Did you feel like that was what was needed for the show, for the audience? And were you happy with with how they portrayed you? I obviously think that you came across very well, but yeah, I'd like to know your thoughts.

Jo:
I kind of, I ruin the show. I ruin the show when I'm watching it with people. My mom was like, I can't watch the show with you around. You ruin it for me because there's so much that was not shown. And it's fine because it's a 30 minute show, like I said. So they cut out a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff. And the other side of working on a show for a major streaming platform is that there's a commercial mandate. They have a massive audience that they're trying to appeal to. While I think the show came out fun and poppy, my kind of content is very much like deep dive. Let's get real. Let's meet the locals, let's hear the stories. And that's just not feasible in a show like that, right? There's a place for the commercial content and the places on Netflix, and it performed really freaking well. It was on top ten for several weeks in multiple countries around the world, and it's because it has such a broad appeal. Whereas if we were going to take a different direction and make it like the way I would have wanted it, which would be more talking about feelings and the people and the culture and the history, maybe people would have gotten bored and it would have hit a smaller amount of people. You learn those things right, and I'm glad I had that experience to see. But again, I might... Like for now what I'm focusing on now. I think I want a smaller audience, but able to be able to speak about what I actually care about and what I actually think the world needs, rather than something more surface level that can appeal to a broader audience. Because I don't- I never wanted to be famous. As an undocumented immigrant, that was actually the last thing I wanted. I was shy and afraid of speaking in public, so it's like I would rather make impacts in people's lives and create meaningful content that will make people think than get a show that'll become a huge hit that won't even let me go outside of my house and speak to locals the way that I love doing so much. So it's a catch 22.

Charlie:
Well, I think the world needs a lot more long form media like I imagine the Jo Club provides. Your YouTube channel that you do on your own is called...

Jo:
Jo Franco.

Charlie:
Jo Franco. But yeah, it was it was a fun Netflix show, definitely. And as you said, very successful. But yeah, a year of constantly being recorded by the sound guy. That sounds intimidating to say the least.

Jo:
I think I'm going to fart after we finish this call just to celebrate.

Charlie:
Well, I will let you do so. So thank you very much for yeah, recording this conversation with me. Appreciate it. As as you said, it's getting towards Christmas. The busy part of the year for most of us. But yeah, beautiful stuff. Thank you so much. I will link everything that we've mentioned in the show notes and the learning units. Thank you guys for listening to the end of this. Thank you very much, Jo.

Jo:
Thanks, Charlie. It was such a pleasure. I think if BBC ever calls in, you need a co-host. You know who to come to.

Charlie:
Perfect. Yeah. There we go. All right, guys. See you next time. Bye bye. [Bye!]. There we go. The end of part three, meaning the end of the episode. Well done for getting through the entirety of it. Make sure you use all of the resources available to you in your membership. Thanks once again for supporting the show and I look forward to seeing you next time on the British English Podcast.