Transcript of Bonus Ep 14 - Pt. 1 Transcript

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to the British English Podcast with your host, Charlie Baxter. And today we're going to be doing an episode all on football. That's right. We've got a guy here because I know nothing about football, really. So we've got a guy here who knows a lot more than me about football and this man, he's been on the show before. He has a bloody good podcast himself. It's Martin from Rock and Roll English. How are you doing, Mike?

Martin:
Very good, Charlie. Very excited about this episode. Happy to be here, obviously, but cannot wait for this episode. My favourite topic in the world.

Charlie:
Fantastic. And the sign behind you. It says Rock and Roll English, but it feels like it's got a bit of a football fans kind of vibe. Is that right? Would you say?

Martin:
That's interesting, actually, yeah because certainly in England matches, you often see people with flags. Exactly like this was something written. Something interesting about this. I've always thought if you look at, for example, World Cups until about 1990, it would always be the Union Jack flag at England games and then like something written like, I don't know, like Manchester or something like this. They were always Union Jacks, but then it changed around about ninety six. And now if you look at an England game, there's only the St George's flag. You won't see the Union Jack flag.

Charlie:
Oh wow. I've only thought of the St George's flag for- for football, for England.

Martin:
It's strange.

Charlie:
It- to me, it makes sense, though, because it's England.

Martin:
Yeah, I agree. So, it's very strange. But yeah, if you look like from 1919 going back, it was always the Union Jack. I don't know why that changed it, but it has. Yeah.

Charlie:
Wow. Did we have different national teams within the UK?

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Within Great Britain?

Martin:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a bit- the different national teams in the UK. That's that's been going on for like since the beginning. So like more than a hundred years. And again, that's strange because, for example, in the Olympics, there is like the GB team now, Great Britain. So like, we're all together. But for other sports like rugby football, we're separate. So yeah, it's strange.

Charlie:
Yeah. Ok, so you are English. You're from south of London? No, forgive me-.

Martin:
Essex.

Charlie:
Whereabouts, exactly? Yeah, Essex, east London. And OK, let's just go straight back to how it was as a young kid growing up. How much was football a thing for you? And when do you feel like it started to become important in your life?

Martin:
Right. Well, my family. So because often someone that's really into football, maybe they get this from their dad or something like that. So that wasn't the case for me. So I got into football. It sounds a bit stupid to say late because I was probably about eight or nine, but for other people. So for example, if I look at my cousin who is into football, his kids that are like four and five are football mad already. Whilst that wasn't really the case with me because I didn't come from a football family, but because the school I went to, it was such a big thing. And then I started playing football because, like, everyone else at school was playing football. And then from then onwards, I mean, it was- instead of a part of my life, it was my life like until I was like probably about twenty eight. Yeah.

Charlie:
Twenty eight?

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
God, it is twenty eight when- no, you didn't become a father at 28,

Martin:
No, no.

Charlie:
It was a little bit later. So what stopped- what changed?

Martin:
I don't know, actually, but maybe it was just a thing with age. But for example, until that age, I couldn't miss a match like even on TV. I remember, for example, I was living in Rome, and for example, my mum came to visit me and, you know, she was obviously keen to look around the sights like the Colosseum, the Vatican. And I said, like, I really want to go to the pub to watch Tottenham - Newcastle and two teams that didn't interest me at all. But I just thought, this is a really good match. And I think I had some plays in my Fantasy Football team. So I was like, I really want to watch this-.

Charlie:
Which we'll get to.

Martin:
Yeah. And so.

Charlie:
Fantasy football.

Martin:
Whilst now I do kind of think, you know, obviously I still love football and stuff, but I do kind of think it would be good to, you know, concentrate on other things in life as well. Yeah.

Charlie:
OK. Because there's more to life, apparently.

Martin:
Yeah, because yeah, I remember as well, people invited me to things like, certainly in Italy, people would say, for example, you want to come to lunch on Sunday, and I would say, for example, no, because it's Arsenal - Chelsea, I can't so ehh-

Charlie:
Ok. Yeah, OK, I have had a few friends like this, but this, I would say, is kind of borderline extreme.

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
But would you agree or do you have other friends that are even more fanatic about it than you?

Martin:
Well, yeah, my kind of group of friends growing up, it was all kind of the same, really. So that was never a problem between us. But yeah, so like I said, when I got older and then kind of realised, actually, that that is a bit stupid to not go and see like friends and family because there's a football match, which isn't actually even particularly interesting. But even now, if there's a really big match on, for example, this Sunday, it's Manchester United - Liverpool. So I've said to my wife, like Sunday. We're not doing anything at that time because I have to watch that. But I feel like-

Charlie:
Sunday, I'm not a father.

Martin:
Yeah, exactly. That's for the really big matches, but but not every week for like matches that are not even important. That's quite rare. I mean, I don't actually watch a lot of football these days because obviously, you know, wife, child, it is a bit more difficult to fit it in.

Charlie:
Yeah, understandable. But let's- let's paint a picture for the non-native who's coming to the UK who hasn't really had much experience with football. You said that it started at the old age of eight and you said that your father didn't necessarily introduce you to football that much. But did you go to football games, sometimes on the weekend to see your favourite team?

Martin:
So from that age onwards, yes. Before that? No. But then, yeah, that was quite a regular- regular occurrence growing up. And then I used to go with other friends to watch other teams, especially London clubs, because obviously Essex is not far from London. So I went to Tottenham quite a lot. West Ham. Arsenal, a few times. Yeah, all over really.

Charlie:
Wow. Yeah, it sounds exciting for an eight year old to, you know, 16 year old. Maybe even twenty eight year old! Fifty year old!

Martin:
Actually is much more exciting when you're older, because when you're eight, you can't really get involved in the pre-match drinking beer and stuff like this. But when you get older and you make a real day of it and so in, I think probably like my mid-20s when I was about 24, I started getting into the awayday thing. So you watch your team play away. So obviously at home, that means- so, like my team obviously was Manchester United, one of those people from the South that support Manchester United.

Martin:
But anyway, and when you go to a home game, so that would be in Manchester, you know, there's lots of fans, but when you go to an away game, it's kind of like the hardcore and it's- it's really actually exciting and we actually went to a few games around Europe as well. So then you make like a weekend of it or actually a midweek because it was often midweek. So we went to like Milan, Munich, Romania, Switzerland, loads of different countries and yeah, brilliant times.

Charlie:
Ok, so you're taking it to the next level, making it a full on weekend getaway kind of,

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Experience, yeah.

Martin:
It is- it is just, you know, a great excuse to visit another country and often behave like a yob, which is a lovely word. Although, yeah, yeah, I must admit, I, you know, obviously I enjoyed drinking before matches, singing songs at football matches. That's one of my favourite things to do.

Charlie:
Ok. With your top off?

Martin:
No, never top off. Never. I mean,

Charlie:
OK, you're not a full blown yob.

Martin:
No, definitely not. Like especially, you know, if things like violence. I mean, there are other reasons for this as well. So, for example, violence, one- anyone above the age of 13 would probably take me in a fight anyway. So definitely stay away from the violence. And taking my top off, I've got a quite skinny, hairy body, so I try and keep that under wraps as much as I can, really.

Charlie:
What if you're actually playing and you score a goal? Do you have a really good goal? Would you ever take your top off?

Martin:
I've never taken my top off. I mean, I've scored a few good goals in my time, but I've never, I've never been that excited to, uh, to take off my top.

Charlie:
We're going off topic here, but what about the beach? When you go to the beach, you take your top off?

Martin:
Yeah, no, I'll take it off there. That's-.

Charlie:
OK.

Martin:
You kind of have to, really, don't you. You look like a bit of an idiot if you don't. Like, yeah, I go with like my pyjama top on to the beach and get in the water. It's nothing- there's nothing worse than seeing someone, I think, get in the water like an adult with, like a T-shirt on or-

Charlie:
Clothes on.

Martin:
Yeah, clothes on. It just looks so stupid. Yeah.

Charlie:
It does. Looks like they've slightly lost the plot. Yeah, but let's go back so we can- a weekend of football, maybe starting when you were a kid. So it's not all about getting on the beers at that age. What would you say "kicks it off"? Not kick off. What kicks the day off, would you say? What's the beginning part of the day? Let's imagine it.

Martin:
Yeah, so it's the- there's travelling, which is also quite fun as well. So I mean, basically, if you're going to anywhere, even if I was going to a, like, match in London, still had to like, meet your friends at the train station, get on the train, talking about the match, that was always like the excitement bit. And again, when you're older, that still happens. But then it's kind of like beers on the train, which is,

Charlie:
Yeah,

Martin:
Which is- which is good. And when I went to further matches, like when I went to Manchester quite often, often would be waking up early. If it was an early kick off, going to get the coach because there was like a supporters club coming from Essex and getting on the coach and so and then arriving at the ground and yes, just it's just- it's just a great day out.

Charlie:
And how many hours before kick off would you get there?

Martin:
Again, depends on your age, because when you're a child, you only really need to get there like an hour before. Have a look around when you're a kid. Often people go to like the club shop and, you know, maybe have a look around there. But when you're older, the idea is to to try and get as much drinking time in before the match as you can, really? Yeah.

Charlie:
So there's loads of pubs around the grounds that people cram themselves into, right?

Martin:
Yeah, especially.

Charlie:
Down as many beers as possible.

Martin:
Especially in the traditional football grounds, because now there are lots of new ones being built. And obviously they're often built kind of like outside the city, in a kind of industrial park kind of thing, but in the traditional grounds. So if you think of like Liverpool, Everton, it's literally like council houses, football ground, council houses, like it's like bang in the middle. It's like you can literally live next door to a football ground. And in those ones, there's lots of pubs around in the area. Yeah.

Charlie:
Yeah. Ok, so let's maybe reel off some of the most famous football clubs that even if we met in a more natural way and became friends and you, you realise that I wasn't much of a football fan.

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
You'd obviously be very disappointed in me. But what kind of things would you- what kind of things would you assume that I still know? Like if I didn't know Manchester United, you'd be like,

Martin:
Yeah, that's-

Charlie:
What are you? Who are you?

Martin:
Yeah, that's impossible. I mean, so yeah, I think even worldwide that it's fairly difficult. I think not to know Manchester United, but certainly if you like, grew up in England, I think it's impossible.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah. So we've got Man U.

Martin:
Yeah, so the- Liverpool and I think maybe Arsenal are probably the biggest- like, in terms of widely known. I mean, again, growing up in England, I think other people would know other teams like Tottenham. Who else? I don't know. For someone that's completely not into football. Yeah, they're the most kind of famous teams, I suppose. But...

Charlie:
OK, you haven't said the one that I actually supported growing up. Chelsea.

Martin:
Right. Ok, yeah, of course.

Charlie:
Would you say that they rival, you know, in my opinion, they do, but maybe not, you know in terms of the world's fame.

Martin:
Certainly these days. Yeah, because when I was a child, they they weren't such a big team. It was only when the Russian guy came in, Ibrahimović, and then they started spending loads of money, but certainly now. So for the last 15 years or so since, like thousand three, four, so like 17, 18 years. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Charlie:
But that after Giovinco, Gianfranco Zola, after he left.

Martin:
Yeah, and there was actually a pizza named after him in Sainsbury's, the supermarket in England, because he was so popular. The Gianfranco Zola Pizza. Great pizza.

Charlie:
That's brilliant. Ok, so we've got- we've got four or five big teams. There's obviously at least probably 20 that we should talk about, but we don't have time. I don't think you as a non-native need to know them. But yeah, those are the five, four or five. Arsenal is in London, Chelsea is in London, Tottenham's in London and then we've got Manchester and Liverpool. That's obvious.

Martin:
Tottenham's an interesting one, I think, especially for English learners, because that's always pronounced like Tottenham. But anyone in England will always just say Tottenham, like there's lots of letters there which we just completely forget about.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, we crush them. Yeah, yeah, Tottenham. Tottenham, yeah. Yeah, that's true. Ok. And what about some famous football figures? We've obviously already mentioned the man that had a pizza named after him, Zola, but we've also got some national heroes from football. What would you assume that would be quite good to mention?

Martin:
Again, for people that are not English and not into football, I don't even know how many, actually, of course, actually David Beckham, I suppose, is a national treasure. As far as I'm concerned. I think, get rid of the royal family, get him on board, is what I think. So he's the one, I think-.

Charlie:
Give him the crown.

Martin:
Yeah, exactly. He's the one, I think, it's sort of globally known. Whilst apart from him, if you're not into football, I mean, people like Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard, Gary Lineker, Bobby Charlton, but I don't think many people will know them if they're not into football.

Charlie:
Yeah, Gary Lineker, he's a TV presenter, so he might come up a bit more often.

Martin:
Yeah, again, though, only in England, even if I ask people in Italy. Do you know who Gary Lineker is? They don't. And he, like, David Beckham in my opinion is another national treasure. He's just brilliant and so funny as well. His- his gags on Match of the Day, which again is a huge part in my opinion of British culture. Match of the Day programme that has been on for about 60 years, something like that. Always Saturday 10:30, which when I was a child, was impossible to stay up for because 10:30 at night when you were like nine, I would always fall asleep. And even now, to be honest, I still fall asleep if I watch it. But. And they show highlights of the matches that have been played because traditionally all matches were played Saturday three o'clock. And I always wondered why it was on so late. I always- I always thought, why can't they do this earlier? Apparently, the reason-.

Charlie:
What, Match of the Day or the football-

Martin:
Match of the day, yeah. What I thought, why does this have to be on so late? But the reason is, so if you've been to a football match, so that's like basically three till five and you're- you've travelled to the other side of the country. You then need time to come home and then when you get home, you watch Match of the Day. That's the idea.

Charlie:
Yeah, that does make sense. I also heard something recently about the broadcasting of the football itself. There's a lot of rules around this, right? You can't- you can't show all of the Premier League games at the time of them actually being played.

Martin:
Yes.

Charlie:
So if they want you to go and see-

Martin:
Exactly, yeah. So if it's Saturday, three o'clock, that game, in England anyway, will not be shown on TV, you can find it on some dodgy illegal stream. And strangely enough, you can watch it in other countries, for example. You can watch that in Italy, but you can't watch that in England because traditionally all of the matches were played Saturday three o'clock. And now because of TV, they're kind of moved, but the other ones will be on TV, but those matches, never on TV.

Charlie:
You've obviously got a lot more to do as an adult when you're at the game.

Martin:
Of goal drinking.

Charlie:
Yeah, and not getting your top off, but you know, singing your heart out.

Martin:
Oh yeah, definitely. Football songs, I just want to say like just the most amazing thing. And I've since realised now having a child that most of- they're all based on like kids nursery rhymes, basically. And so I always find it strange how you get generally a lot of like men aged from 20 to 50, 60, singing like child's nursery rhyme at the top of their voices. And I think as well, English people are particularly good at songs and I think quite- quite well travelled. My favourite, I think, has to be- this was actually a boxing fight and it was an American boxer against an English boxer in about 2007.

Martin:
They were singing "You can stick your fucking dollars up your arse", because it was- they were just singing to the Americans just to like, try and get one over on them. So they carry on with,

Martin:
"You can stick your fucking dollar, stick your fucking, stick your fucking dollars up your arse. Cos there's two dollars to the pound, cos there's two dollars to the pound."

Martin:
And I just thought like trying to give it to some other people based on currency. The value of currency, I just thought, is just a fantastic, fantastic thing to do. Whoever came up with that is a genius.

Charlie:
Yeah, very creative. I always want to know who's who's creating these songs.

Martin:
That's something I've never got to the bottom of. I don't know how that works.

Charlie:
Yeah, it's case number one.

Martin:
Yeah, it's a strange thing.

Charlie:
Okay, so you like doing that? You like singing. You like drinking conversation wise. You mentioned the the fantasy leagues. Hmm. When did you get into this and what is it?

Martin:
Well, I'll start, maybe with what is it? So you have this like fictional budget, let's say, of often I think it is one hundred million. And then players of value, you'd need to pick, well, eleven players and three subs using this money. So the best players, obviously the most expensive. So you can't pick all of the best players because you haven't got enough money. They're kind of like valued for how many points they score. They obviously get points for scoring goals, defenders for not conceding goals, et cetera. So you have to try and find a good balance of like good players. And the real skill is finding the players that don't have a high value but obviously can get high points.

Martin:
Now I got into this, I mean, this has been going for years, but it kind of really took off, I think, in about 2007, when the www.premierleague.com created one. Because you could actually do transfers every week and like, really keep on top of this. And then that became like, I mean, I tell people that I haven't done it now in about seven years, and I tell people I've been clean for seven years now, like it's because it was like a- a drug. I do feel like I've given up like- like crack or something like that.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Martin:
Because it was just- it was- completely taken over my life. I remember having nightmares about my other, like my friends, players scoring goals and that- that caused me so much pain over the years.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Martin:
So uh..

Charlie:
And so let me get this straight. So you choose your team, your fantasy team from real players.

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
And you have fake money and everyone's paid- everyone pays a little bit of money into this competition?

Martin:
Well, you can do that. You can do a bet between you- so you're in a league with your friends. So let's say there's five of us and then we go in the league and then you get points every week for how many players, for how many points your players score. And these get added up. And then over the season, there's the winner. So often you get people like putting in like, I don't know, £10 each or whatever, and the winner takes all, but it's more the pride, to be honest. I was in a couple of leagues, one with, let's say, my friends from school. There was never any money involved there, but that- that really meant a lot. And I actually only won that once, but my with my friends from university, I used to have a bet with one of my friends where whoever lost had to pay the winner of £50. But a £50 note which are quite rare in England, aren't they? It's rare. You see one of those red £50 notes.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Martin:
And-

Charlie:
Yeah.

Martin:
And it had to be a crisp £50 note. So and luckily, I never lost this, but my friend told me every year he had to queue up at the bank and then ask for a £50 note. And then when they gave it to him, he said, No, that's not. That's not crisp enough. I need- I need it better than that and then give it to me-.

Charlie:
And then you've got to travel with it. So.

Martin:
Yeah.

Charlie:
Precariously. Yeah.

Martin:
He used to fold it. He used to put it in a book. Yeah, just to stop.

Charlie:
Yeah, yeah, that's good.

Martin:
So, yeah, great times.

Charlie:
Yeah. Going back a bit using books and money. Real money back in the day. Okay. Fantasy Football. That was the thing. And the reason I brought that up was because I assume that is what you guys are talking about when you're drinking and you're getting ready for the football. Is that what you are mainly talking about?

Martin:
Not that much. It depends. So when you're in that environment of in the pub before the match, maybe you often get talking to some other people as well, and they don't necessarily definitely like Fantasy Football. So maybe with your close friends, you can talk about that. But yeah, some people actually don't like it because it can, can be like a conflict of interest. So, for example, if you support Manchester United and they're playing Chelsea and you've got some Chelsea players in your team, it's a bit of a conflict of interest, really.

Charlie:
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Stay away from that. Ok? What do you talk about then?

Martin:
Well, so when you go with a friend, I mean, I mean, it's just like I said, it's just a day out, really. So you're not even necessarily talking about football, you're just having a normal chat. And obviously, football comes up and there may be you may talk about who's going to be playing because obviously you haven't seen a team yet. You might be talking about that. What it can mean, like, if it's an important match, certainly more after the match, you would talk about it. Because obviously when you're there as well. But you can miss moments. When you're at home, you know, you see the replay. But when you- when you were there, you can almost miss things. So you kind of just talk about it. But but yeah, it's more of just the day out, really. So even after the match, you're kind of talking, you know, where to get some food on stuff like this, really? Just, yeah, normal chat, really.

Charlie:
So it's- it's a good day out. It includes the football, but you're not absolutely obsessed with the conversation being around football.

Martin:
No, absolutely not. Like I said, that's the great thing of- it's a great day out, a great experience. So with my friend, with which we travelled, so with whom, I suppose, is the correct way to say, that I travelled around Europe. So it was always, we- we talk about the trips more than anything.

Martin:
We actually once even drove to Munich from London in my friend's car. And my friend has an old school, Mini Cooper. So and we drove to Munich from London.

Charlie:
Fantastic!

Martin:
And you know, that was a great road trip. And if anything, we talk about the fact that we had those Cadbury's Mini Rolls keeping us company the whole time. And, you know, like every sort of like few hours, we would just, you know, drive in for many hours, just needed that sugar boost. So we just said, I think it's time for a mini roll. And that was like the best part of the trip.

Charlie:
You don't even remember the result, necessarily.

Martin:
Yes.

Charlie:
Just the Mini Rolls.

Martin:
Exactly, that's the main part of that trip, that was- that was fantastic.

Charlie:
Yeah, nice. So it's a tool to create memories, but.

Martin:
Yeah, definitely.

Charlie:
A good excuse for a memory. Yeah, definitely. Okay, nice. Unfortunately, that's all we've got time for. So thank you very much for telling me a little bit more about the wonders of football. I feel like we've just scratched the surface, but that's all we've got time for- for Part One. But stick around, guys, because we've got Part Two and Part Three, we're going to be talking about hooliganism. It's quite a hard word to say. Can you say that word for me, Martin?

Martin:
It is a bit difficult. Hooliganism. Hooh. Yeah, yeah, oh.

Charlie:
Yeah. And perhaps even the highs and lows of football for British people or English people over the last couple of decades, maybe even 60 years. So we've got lots more to talk about in Part Two and Three. If you are here just for Part One, thank you very much for sticking around and make sure you go and check out Martin's podcast, Rock and Roll English. But thank you very much, Martin, and we will see everyone in the Premium and Academy in Part Two and Three.

Martin:
Goodbye weekly listeners and see the other people in Part Two and Three.

Charlie:
All right. See you soon, guys. Bye bye.

Charlie:
That's all for me this week, I hope you have a good seven days ahead of you. My name is Charlie Baxter and I will see you next time on The British English Podcast.