Transcript of Bonus Ep 10 - Pt. 1 Transcript

Charlie:
Hello and welcome to another episode of The British English podcast! That is right! That is the show that you have tuned in to. Yeah, welcome! Welcome to this week's one. And it's a special one. As is every week, isn't it? Yes, but this week is extra special because I managed to get a British polyglot on the show. A polyglot, a person who speaks many languages. But I assume you might know that one, considering you love learning languages. Considering you might be a polyglot. I don't know. I don't know. Are you a polyglot?

Charlie:
Anyway, it's pretty rare to get a British polyglot because, well, British people aren't very well known for being good foreign language learners, but I managed to find one. But he's not here just to show off that he can speak eight languages to at least a conversational level because he's actually a very well established author of over 30 language learning books. And as I had been using one of them to learn Spanish, I thought it would be great to interview him about his methods, his motivations, any tips he has for language learners like yourself at an intermediate to advanced level. And to learn more about his journey, as I am rather impressed by it all.

Charlie:
And I do want to say before we get into this conversation, after listening back to it myself, I'd like to suggest you try to keep an ear out for the large amount of native expressions Olly uses. Not so much the vocabulary. I mean, there is plenty of that there. But when I was making the glossaries, I really picked up on the frequency of native collocations Olly uses. He uses fairly understandable vocabulary, but in a sentence structure that I don't hear many non-native students using. So yeah, keep an ear out for that. And he also uses a nice vocabulary from time to time, but particularly, I enjoyed the native collocations.

Charlie:
So yeah, the glossaries will definitely help you with this, as will the transcripts, which you can get over on the wwwthebritishenglishpodcast.com And if you don't want to get them, at least get the free glossary. Some of the native collocations he used in part one, and you can get that at www.thebritishenglishpodcast.com/freebies F R E E B I E S Freebies. OK, so without further ado, please enjoy a conversation between myself, Charlie Baxter and Olly Richards.

Charlie:
Hello, Ollie. Thank you very much for being here. How are you today?

Olly:
It's an absolute pleasure. I'm I'm really good. And it's nice to be talking with you.

Charlie:
Wonderful, wonderful stuff. We're here today because, Olly, I read some of Olly's work years ago as I was learning Spanish. And it's kind of come full circle for me because- I don't know how I came across. I think it was because you had a video with Lucy on on YouTube. Did you do that recently?

Olly:
That was a recent one, yeah.

Charlie:
So I saw that. And then I saw that you were doing these short stories and I was like, OK, looked onto it. And then I realised that that's the thing that I've been- I was reading many years ago. So I just thought, oh my God, that's amazing. And I looked into your stuff and I thought it would be great to get you on here to better understand the importance of storytelling. Before we get into storytelling, can you maybe tell us a little bit about how you got into this kind of industry of language learning and teaching language?

Olly:
Yes, it's a long story, but I'll keep it short. So I, I kind of grew up without any background in languages whatsoever, but I got really interested in languages when I was about 19 years old. And I was living in London and suddenly met people from all around the world. So there were people- meeting people from Italy, from Switzerland, Sweden, Japan. And I just thought, wow, there's a big wide world out there, I only speak English and I feel a little bit inadequate. So I started learning other languages and spent most of my 20s kind of travelling, learning languages, just, you know, really having lots of fun. When I was about 28, I started teaching languages as well. So I started teaching English and I taught English for a little bit in Japan and then in the Middle East as well. I took teaching quite seriously, got very highly qualified as a teacher, did a diploma, masters degree, all that stuff. And then one day I thought, I want to start writing about this stuff because I feel like I've got such a lot of experience with languages. I want to help other people learn. So I started a little blog that was called I Will Teach You A Language. I was kind of basically blogging about my experience, learning languages, things that worked for me.

Olly:
And so I kinda started this blog as a- as a way to just bring some creativity back into my life. But I think what I did quite well was I managed to marry up. On the one hand, my experience of learning lots of languages, I've learnt eight languages, with my experience of actually teaching languages. So I was able to kind of talk about language learning in a way that not many other people were. And so the blog became very successful, and then I moved on to do other things, like starting a YouTube channel, which people can find on YouTube by searching Olly Richards. And then I started writing books and now I've published over- I'm losing track now, somewhere between 30 or 40 books. Many of which are with- with teach yourself books of short stories and things like that. And I have a podcast called the I Will Teach You A Language podcast. And of course, a website, which is actually changing very soon, it's going to be changing to www.storylearning.com because story learning is what I- what I call my- my method of learning languages, with stories. So- so yeah, it's been a long, long journey. And the good news is I've got lots more ideas to come as well.

Charlie:
I feel like you should- you should look at least 50, 60 years old.

Olly:
I've been- I've been working hard. I've been working hard the last- the last seven years or so.

Charlie:
I feel like you've got this kind of teaching industry, kind of Elon Musk vibe going on. The hyper productive kind of thing.

Olly:
I just like making stuff. You know, I really like making stuff. One of the reasons I loved teaching was I really like just designing really cool lessons. When I did my CELTA and my DELTA teacher training courses. I was so happy because I was just, you know, just geeking out on these lessons and building a really creative ways of teaching. For me, all this stuff that I'm doing, like writing books and making videos, it's just creativity. And I think when you do something that you enjoy, it doesn't feel like work. And so you can do more and more and more. So. So, yeah, I just, I just- I love making stuff.

Charlie:
Yeah. And do you have a personal, like a social life? Do you have any time for that?

Olly:
I don't, I don't work a great deal these days, really. I mean, I have in the past. I've worked extremely hard, but my business is at a point now where I have a wonderful team of people who run the business and I have more time to- to put into new projects and things like that. So, yeah, in the last year or so, I've actually got a quite- a fair amount of free time.

Charlie:
What are you doing with it?

Olly:
Ah so, I go to the gym quite a lot. I go on long walks where I can kind of listen to audio books. I would be travelling if I could, but I can't. So I'm just kind of, you know, I live in the countryside, in the UK, in the south west, a lovely, lovely place called Devon. So I often kind of just drive down to the beach, take a walk on the beach, listen to- listen to an audio book and drink a coffee and spend time learning languages. I like cooking, but yeah, lots of exercise, lots of- lots of learning and then I kind of make videos on my YouTube channel, which is fun.

Charlie:
Yes. Yeah. So how long have you been active on YouTube?

Olly:
Yes, so it's kind of funny because I actually started my YouTube channel right back at the beginning when I first started my website. Because for me, because I was- because I was blogging about language learning, I wanted to show people that I could speak languages. And so YouTube for me was a way to kind of put videos on my blog to show people that, I- you know, I wasn't just- I wasn't just writing about learning Portuguese, whatever. I can actually speak it. So I would. I would just- but- but I never really took YouTube seriously.

Olly:
And that's why I think my channel never really grew that much, because I was just making stuff to go on my blog, you know. But then a few months ago, I actually decided. Right, I want to take YouTube seriously because I've noticed I've got friends, like you mentioned Lucy before. You know, I've got- they've got friends who have amassed like six million subscribers. And, I'm like hang on, why have I only got thirty five thousand if Lucy's got six million? Some- so I- then I realised I'd never actually learnt how to do YouTube. So a few months ago, I kind of like started studying how to do YouTube and started making it like different kinds of videos and taking it more seriously. And so I like to say I've been YouTube-ing for about three months because that's the length of time I've been doing it seriously. But but it's actually like seven years.

Charlie:
Three months. I think that's- I think a bit like learning a language. Like I always ask, how long have you been actively participating in learning it rather than just like, it's there. It's kind of 'in the background'. Schools maybe taught you it a little bit, but you haven't really absorbed it.

Olly:
That's a good- that's a good analogy really. I- yeah. But yeah, no, I started working on my YouTube channel properly in at the end of January this year, so it's been about three months and the channel has grown about- about 30 percent in the last three months, which is- so I feel like I'm on the right track and I've got so many things. I just love making language content. I love making content about language learning, you know, ideas to help, helping people with ideas of how to learn languages with stories and things like that, looking at other great language learners and analysing their methods. I just like making stuff. So. So, yeah, I really just kind of- try to enjoy the process.

Charlie:
Yeah. I can tell from your book, so I got these in Spanish. Is- are the stories the same in, in all languages or are they different depending on certain types?

Olly:
Good question. Yeah. So from- in one volume. So for example the Beginner Stories Vol. One, they are the same stories across every different language, but they have- it's not just a straight translation. They have been localised. So for example, there's a story that takes place in Spain in the Spanish books, and it will take place in Italy in the Italian book. But they are essentially the same stories.

Olly:
That's actually really- a really, really good benefit for people, because if you do like to learn multiple languages, then what you can do, if you've read the Spanish book, then you can pick up the Italian book. And because you already understand the story and know the plot, then. As we say that, in the teaching world, meaning is taken care of, which means you can focus on the form. So you can focus on the actual- on the vocabulary and the grammar, and notice how it's being used, because you already know the story. So I like to think of it- think of it as a big- as a big benefit to have those stories the same. But then when we get to the Intermediate books, those are completely different stories, obviously. And then we're about to release Volume Two of the Beginner Series. Those are different stories as well,

Charlie:
Although I'm going to ask about the intermediate one, because I was listening to the audiobook of the short stories in English. I think I was listening to this one, the audio book, and it was of- one of the stories was of a guy trying to get into a nightclub. And I definitely remember doing that in Spanish.

Olly:
Well, you must have read the intermediate Spanish book then.

Charlie:
Yeah, so- oh so the Intermediates are the same as well. I think you say the Beginner one is the same-.

Olly:
All the Beginner languages are the same. So Beginner English, Beginner Spanish, Beginner French, Beginner Japanese, whatever. They're all the same. But then the intermediate ones are also all the same. They're different stories from the beginner. But they're all, they're the same across different languages. If that makes sense.

Charlie:
Oh I see. Oh I see. So the levels. Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean. So you've written completely different stuff for the Beginners and the Intermediates, but in the language, you can cross over.

Olly:
Exactly. Yeah that's right.

Charlie:
Got it. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense because it was really bring back memories of like me being in Chile, travelling across like, south of Chile, going up this volcano that- I was listening to this story. And I was like, oh wow, this is amazing.

Olly:
I love- I love hearing stories about when people like DM me on Instagram or whatever, or email me and say something like what you've just said. I was just reading your book on top of a volcano in Chile. I really love hearing these stories of the different places that people are using my material because people are using all- all around the world in different places, in some really crazy situation. And I find that very, very rewarding to hear those stories. So, yeah, thanks for that, thanks for telling.

Charlie:
Yeah. You know, I agree with you. I like seeing when- when people are like just on Instagram, they're saying where they're listening to my podcast or something, and I just see a glimpse of what their day is like. I really like seeing how they're using that- the audio. Can I just- just go over these short stories a little bit more? So you've got the Beginner one here and then the Intermediate one here. What- what kind of came first for you? Did you- did you think 'Let's go beginner and then Intermediate.'?

Charlie:
I'm just going to interrupt this episode by telling you about an ebook and audio book that Harry and I have done for anyone preparing for the IELTS exam. But this isn't just any old e-book/audio book. It is a highly intelligent and incredibly thorough one.

Charlie:
You see, we noticed how many of our exam preparation students were stressing themselves out over studying long lists of idioms and phrasal verbs, before Exam Day came. And then they didn't even get a chance to use 10 percent of what they had learnt in the exam. And after studying the marking criteria, and really thinking about how often our students should be using idiomatic language in the exam, we took a step back and thought if the examiner is only really wanting to hear a handful of idioms in the learners answers. As any more would in fact be unnatural or overkill, meaning too much, if we curated a very short list of idioms that could be used to answer pretty much any IELTS question. Well, that way the student is able to go into the exam with these select idioms ready to use in whatever question that comes up.

Charlie:
And you know what? It's really working. I won't go on about it any more now. But if you did want to get your hands on these 10 idioms that Harry and I have curated specifically for anyone preparing for an English exam like the IELTS Test, arm yourself with these 10 phrases that can be used in so many ways, really easily, and be given an incredibly thorough teaching process for each one to ensure you not only remember the phrase, but you know exactly how to use them like a native would then, hey, today is your lucky day, because we are giving it away for free. And all you need to do is find it in the show notes of this episode. Head over to www.thebritishenglishpodcast.com and find it in the homepage. Or just like the free worksheet for this episode, go to www.thebritishenglishpodcast.com/freebies That is F R E E B I E S. OK, enough about the ebook and audio book, but hope you like it. And let's get back to this week's episode.

Charlie:
What- what kind of came first for you? Did you- did you think 'Let's go beginner and then Intermediate.'?

Olly:
Yeah. And the reason was that they did- they didn't- they didn't start in English. So I wrote the first book in Spanish actually. And so I was intending and aiming it for English speakers, learning Spanish. And so it made more sense to begin with the Beginner book. I think if- if I had been doing it primarily for the English learning market, that I might have started with an Intermediate version because, you know, reading- I mean, something we try to encourage students at all levels, isn't it? But it's something that people start to do a bit more of that Intermediate level, I find. But yeah, but it began with the Beginner books because it was everything in the- the first book I wrote as an experiment back in 2015 or something was for Spanish learners.

Charlie:
It was the Beginner book and then the Intermediate Spanish? Was that your second one? I'm just trying to think of- I listened to the interme- No, I listened to the Beginner. Oh, I'm confused now! No, I must have listened to the Intermediate Spanish. Yes, I listened to that.

Olly:
Yeah. You must- you must have done- yeah, those- those stories about the nightclub. That's- that's the intermediate version.

Charlie:
Yeah. Yeah. So you- you wrote that after the- the Beginner Spanish is your second?

Olly:
Correct. Yeah. So so basically I wrote the Beginner books. It did really well in Spanish, so I made it into other languages. And then I thought, ok, well what next? I could kind of go into some more obscure languages like, you know, Swahili or something. Or I could write an Intermediate version. And I thought that made more sense because lots of people learning languages like Spanish and English and Italian are intermediate. So that made sense. So it began with a beginner and then Intermediate. And then I went back to begin a Volume Two. And then, you know, who knows? We may end up doing Intermediate Volume Two as well.

Olly:
I mean, my publishers, Teach Yourself, they're they're wonderful. But the publishing world moves very, very slowly. And it's not uncommon for an idea, for a book from idea to actually being on the shelves. It can take two years, you know. So I can't do stuff as fast as I used to, which is a kind of a- kind of a constraint. But it does mean that the final books, when we actually get them out there, they are like top quality. So because, you know, because Teach Yourself can do a much better job than I could actually making these wonderful imprints and artwork and things like that.

Charlie:
So, I want to talk a little bit more about storytelling and like the psychology behind it all. But before we do, I just wanted to to check. So when you- when you translate, you said that you're thinking locally. Are you doing it yourself? Or are you getting somebody else to do it?

Olly:
No, translation is something that is very difficult to get right and can generally only be done by native speakers translating into their own language. So, for example, when I read the original Spanish, you know, I'm not a native Spanish speaker. So, I was writing them in Spanish, but I had to have help to make sure that they were- it was error free and totally natural. And then- but then when we would translate that into, say, Norwegian, we would have a Norwegian editorial team who take the original and then work on translating into Norwegian. So- so, yeah, I'm not- I'm not doing this myself. I like that- translations are very specialist thing. And people study- people study a whole lifetime to do that. And even then, they would generally only translate into their- into their mother tongue.

Charlie:
The other question I wanted to ask about the books is, quite a few of my students are asking, what can I read as Upper Intermediate to Advanced? Maybe even C2 kind of advanced, and other than like the whole world of literature, that's all down to taste. I don't really know what ESL resources to suggest to them. Do you think about doing an Advanced thing and if not, why?

Charlie:
This episode comes with a free worksheet over on the website, www.thebritishenglishpodcast.com so grab that and you can listen along whilst using it.

Olly:
Yeah, it's funny, I've actually been getting the- asked that, a lot recently. See, my- my philosophy has always been, look, if you- if you are a B2, if you can reach a B2 level, then the next step is to read native-level material. I think you need help and support to get up to that B1 and B2 level. And that's what my books are aimed at. But really at B2 the best thing that we can do as teachers, I think, is to encourage our students to read native material. Because yes, it's challenging. But you can understand enough.

Olly:
Literature is difficult because it's very- the language used is much more artistic and it's much more- it uses- it uses much more kind of flowery language. So I think the key really is to not try to force people to read certain things, but rather to get them to read around their own tastes and their own interests. So, you know, for example, non-fiction tends to be a lot easier than fiction. So if you are somebody who doesn't particularly like, if, for example, if you don't read books, you don't read novels in your mother tongue, then you're not going to enjoy reading them when you're learning English. So what I would always do is ask a student, I go, what do you read in your mother tongue? Oh, you read books on- on business because you- because you're starting a business. Great! Go and read business books in English. And so try to follow, try to follow your interests and read what you would read in your mother tongue.

Olly:
And then, you know, if it's non-fiction that makes it a little bit easier because non-fiction tends to be a lot more pragmatic and less- with less flowery, flowery language. So that's what I would try to do. It's certainly what I've done in my languages. I've always tried to start reading native material from a much earlier stage, really kind of, B1 and above. I think that it's worth, it's difficult, but it's worth it because it pays off so much later on once you can actually read freely and for pleasure in the language.

Olly:
But having said that, I've had so many people recently asked me for advanced stories and it's made me think it might go against my philosophy a little bit. But hey, if people want it, then, you know, I've always tried to make the things that people want. Maybe there's a demand for that. I like- what I'd have to do is I'd have to think what- so let's say I was writing stories for an- at an advanced level. Say a C1 level. I'd have to think about what are the- what are the elements of language that are difficult for people at a C1 level? And I mean, what would you say, Charlie? What do you think for a C1 level student who would like to read fiction but still finds it difficult? What what are the specific things that you think they would need?

Charlie:
The main things that I point out is the- the native way of using phrasal verbs. A boring one, but prepositions is always quite tricky. And idioms still is always needed. But yeah, I think phrasal verbs, and cultural references at that point are the ones that they're missing. I think- I think it would- could work quite well because-.

Olly:
Yes, so I think what I'd have to do in that scenario is I'd have to kind of write stories which are not too hard. Maybe stories at a kind of B2 level. But then we do have- we kind of pepper in, we throw in, scatter in, scatter around little bits of more difficult language. So that's the kind of base level of- of the story isn't too hard. But then because you've got some difficult, difficult idiomatic language and expressions phrasal verbs, it's an opportunity for the reader to focus on those without also having to wade through this kind of quagmire, marsh, swamp of- of difficult language across the board.

Charlie:
Yes, that's. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I also thought after that that tenses like, using the perfects properly would be a nice addition. If you could make an Intermediate or B2 and then like make an Advanced one with different tenses, like really layering up the tense time line. That would be quite interesting for the learner perhaps.

Olly:
Yeah. And talking about more, more abstract concepts as well, because one of the things we try to do in the- in the Beginner and Intermediate books, we tried to keep it fairly concrete, certainly at the lower level, at Intermediate you can introduce more vocabulary, but we're not talking about very- like too abstract ideas because that can be a bit tricky. So, yeah, you know, I- I'm- I'm going to I'm going to do this, I think, yeah. So come back in two years and then...

Charlie:
Let's look into storytelling a little bit more. I imagine that you've got a lot to say on the- just the idea of that word, storytelling. You've got a mind map that goes in many directions, very far. But what I was instantly amazed with, or impressed with, was that I was gripped by your storytelling. Like the actual- it was quite simple, but it was so- I was emotionally involved straight away. How did you- did you stumble across that? Is that natural to you or did you start to, like, realise how to do it over a while?

Olly:
Did you- let me- but let me out- before I answer that, let me ask you, is that something- is that an experience that you had reading in- reading in Spanish?

Charlie:
It* probably was, I can't remember that far back, but I was talking about the audio book that I listened to last week in English, so it's Intermediate English, and normally I get a little bit bored with most things, but I was gripped. I really wanted to know what happened with the- with the girls.

Olly:
Yeah, I mean, it's great that you- it's great that you- that you- that you feel that. And that's obviously what I'm aiming for. I kind of- I honestly- ah see I'm not so sure that there's anything particularly special about this story. I just consider them to be good stories written well, that's what's I- what I aim for. I think, you know, I suspect that it's not so much that my stories are so phenomenal. It's just that most English learning material is so boring that as soon as you find something that's like not completely rubbish, it just stands out a mile.

Olly:
And that's really what I've tried to do with these books across the board. Like, I've always been a big fan of graded readers. I think there's some extensive reading is- is just such an important part of learning. But every time I picked up a graded reader in a language I was learning, or had to recommend one for my English students, it would be like, you know, Charles Dickens and Jane Austen. I was like, come on, man, give me something more. Give me something fresher. Give me something more modern. But there is nothing out there. So I was just trying to write things that- that were just interesting. So I'm really pleased that you like the stories.

Olly:
I really can't claim any particular- any particular genius there other than trying to write a really, really good story and varying the genre as well. So, you know, I'm quite careful to include lots of different genres of stories. So, you know, we've got- you've got sci-fi, you've got some- you've got crime. You've got sort of slight kind of horror type things, historical fiction. There's a whole bunch of different- different genres. You know, I have studied writing. I know how to write a story, you are going to have to write, know the development of a story. But that's nothing special like that. That's- that's, you know, for anybody to learn how- who takes an interest. I guess it's just that's the value of having- of having compel- what's known as compelling input in language learning. Right. So it's not just- it's not just about your text containing the grammar. You want to learn about it being compelling so that you actually want to read it. Because when you can get to a point where you actually want genuine, you want to read stuff, then you don't need a teacher anymore because you're just going to be reading it and you can be getting so much input that you can just learn, learn independently.

Charlie:
It most definitely is compelling. Yeah, I highly recommend it to anyone, especially at the Intermediate level.

Charlie:
So if you wanted to listen to the full conversation, you can easily become a Premium podcast member and get access to all parts of this conversation. And if you want to join a bunch of passionate learners and want to get a good grip on British culture in the most fun and effective way, then head over to www.thebritishenglishpodcast.com and join The Academy.

Charlie:
Thank you very much for your time. So your short stories are available for anyone in the Intermediate or Beginner area. Any other areas that people can go to, or things- I mean, your YouTube channel obviously is one that we can point people towards. And I'll put everything in the show notes in the description box. Anything you'd like to me to tell people?

Olly:
So best things for people to do if they'd like to find out more about about me and what I do is find me on YouTube. So go to YouTube, maybe Charlie can put a link below in the description or you can just search for all Olly Richards on YouTube. If you like a podcast, you can go to the I Will Teach You A Language podcast or you can go to my website at www.storylearning.com where there's lots of articles around language learning and also other- other training courses for- for English learners as well. Or if you want to learn another language, if you want to learn Spanish or French or Japanese through stories, we have lots of courses available there as well.

Charlie:
Brilliant. Thank you very much, Olly!

Olly:
My pleasure.

Charlie:
All right. Take care. Bye bye!

Olly:
Cheers, Charlie!